BOSS 302 Exchange

BOSS 302 Forums => BOSS 302 General Discussion => Topic started by: yello9F02G on January 26, 2008, 11:34:34 am

Title: '71 Boss 302
Post by: yello9F02G on January 26, 2008, 11:34:34 am
There is an interesting article in the February issue of Mustang Monthly Magazine about a '71 Mustang, owned by Andrew Hack, that is most likely the only 71 Boss 302 ever built. He bought the car listed on Ebay, not knowing the car's history, but discovered that this may be a very significant auto, from his inspection of the car and the Marti report.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: bos04 on January 26, 2008, 11:43:28 am
Another classic example of, "Never Say Never". If you look in Kevin Martis book, "Mustang by the Numbers" it also indicates it was the only 1971 351-2V with a 4spd built. Now there's an interesting find!

Phil J
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Epps on January 26, 2008, 05:06:17 pm
It's the same car!
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 2000RCAR on January 26, 2008, 05:55:08 pm
I saw that. PRETTY COOL!!! Lucky guy!!
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: noboss on January 26, 2008, 06:09:49 pm
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i273/noboss302/173_0402_boss_21a_z.jpg)
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: BossStang on January 26, 2008, 07:32:30 pm
What would a guy do ? Leave it or restore it ? Flat out it started life as a boss 302 . Talk about a one of one car . I would have to say on any scale that this is the RAREST boss 302 . Its his car but I am just in AAAAHHHHHH to hear about such a rare find . I think the real cool thing is that it has been stated by some very big mustang KNOW IT ALLS that this car was never built . Now we know part of the story . I wonder what a car like that would bring at BJ ? In my book this car is just as big a find as the car from bullet is ! Makes you wonder what else is out there  ??? ??? ??? This is what makes the hobby fun ! A GOOD SHAKE UP ! I hope there is more to come!!!!!  Robert
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: noboss on January 26, 2008, 10:39:57 pm
Check these pictures out , there are 7 pages , cool stuff.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehistoryof/173_0402_boss_mustang_35th_anniversary/index6.html (http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehistoryof/173_0402_boss_mustang_35th_anniversary/index6.html)
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: dfarr on January 27, 2008, 08:29:40 am
Based on the research I did while writing the article, it appears that Ford may have been planning to offer both the Boss 302 and Boss 351 in 1971. That would explain the '71 Boss 302 decals and other parts in Ford's parts catalog. A friend of mine who worked in Ford engine engineering recalls that the Boss 351 engine was in the works for at least a couple of years, so he doesn't think it was a hastily prepared replacement for the Boss 302. He was surprised to hear that Ford was even thinking about a '71 Boss 302, and even more surprised to learn that at least one was produced. Based on the photos of the press car, it appears that perhaps at least one other '71 Boss 302 was built. However, it could have been a pilot car, not a regular production car like Andrew's, so nothing would show up in Kevin Marti's database. Regardless, it's always exxciting to discover new stuff.

Donald Farr
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 9F02G196828 on January 27, 2008, 10:08:01 am
I wonder what the guy is going to do as far as a restoration? The factory built it as both a "G" and "H" code car. It might be better to just leave it as it is, but it would be very cool to see it restored to its Boss 302 configuration. Although in order to do that, he'd have to have a dash vin plate created. Not sure how that would work with the law. I guess if he showed the DMV all the Kevin Marti documentation, he might be able to change the vin of the vehicle. Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: JoshBolger on January 27, 2008, 03:59:55 pm
You might want to read...

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=35106.0

This was discussion from a week or so ago about the same artical
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 27, 2008, 09:12:15 pm
I posted a close-up photo of the original 1971 Boss 302 door tag at this address, if you want to take a look:

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=35212.0

There are still a lot of unanswered questions about this car like: why does the earliest invoice list the VIN as 1F05R100053, with the usual Boss 351 package contents listed, including a ram air hood (the car still has ram air springs!).

Since the car was "born" as a G code, makes me believe there is some earlier "non-standard" paperwork that was lost, or hasn't been found yet.  Although, I have to say the Door tag, Invoices and Ford Communications Memo found so far are pretty breathtaking documentation.  Wish someone had a photo from that Las Vegas Auto Show.
-Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 9F02G196828 on January 28, 2008, 05:00:32 am
Andy, thanks for the close-up photo of the door tag. Wow, very interesting to say the least. Even with all the amazing documentation you've found, there are still some unanswered questions about the car. Keep us all informed of any new info you acquire. And welcome to the forum!  Jim
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: BossStang on January 28, 2008, 06:09:06 am
 ;D I just want to thank Andy again for sharing this info with us . I also want to thank Donald Farr for bringing the story to us ! I have not bought a mustang monthly in years ( I buy mustang and Fords ) ! I thinks its time to subscribe again ! I think it pumps us old ford boys to know there really are still rare finds out there. Donald keep these stories coming . Robert
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 28, 2008, 07:22:43 am
Robert- it's my pleasure to be able to join in the conversation and share this stuff.  Heck, last night I found myself in Wally World telling complete strangers, "look, that's my car on the cover of Mustang Monthly..."  My wife won't let me go back into the store until this month's issue is sold out!

My thanks, again to Donald Farr who did a great job compressing so many facts into the story, and was such a pleasure to meet.   I think this story does illustrate that, even in these time of high collector car prices and high profile auctions on tv, there are still fantastic "finds" out there for the "average Joe" to discover.  Also, not everyone selling a car on the internet is out to "take" somebody. 

This car was actually in better condition than the seller described, and still would have been a very good bargain, even though neither the seller nor myself knew the signicance of the car's actual history.  And, though more difficult these days, it is still possible to get some vehicle history from the California DMV! -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: BossStang on January 28, 2008, 09:11:42 am
Andy I did the same thing when my story and Boss 302 were in the rare finds of Mustang and Fords mag .  I think its neat how a guy can be so happy to see his car in a mag . Anyone can restore a car and win a trophey . Anyone can buy a car done by someone else and take credit for it . It really doesnt matter what you do with you car Andy . You have the story and the history . To me thats what makes your car so interesting . I hope everyone else  that reads this article is sharing in the same excitement as You and myself . Then again I need all the help I can get now that its below zero here in Montana again  :( ! I need a heated garage !  ;D Robert
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 29, 2008, 03:19:28 pm
Okay, I finally figured out how to upload a photo over at Carsdomain.com.  If you go to this link, I put up a neat side-by-side photo of the car as it looked in 1970 and today.

Also, if you go there, check out page two -Andy

http://www.cardomain.com/member/71boss302found/?l=1

(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050001_large.jpg)
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 2000RCAR on January 29, 2008, 04:01:50 pm
The only thing I would do to that car is put gas in it!! JMO!!

Carroll
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: xler8ion on January 29, 2008, 06:32:36 pm
Andy,

Great car, story and find. I'm in the will, right? ::) Just a question, the 1971 publicity color photo you put on car domain looks like it has Boss 351 decals when I enlarge it but I could not enlarge it enough to be sure. Is it a Boss 302 or 351 in that picture? Regardless thanks for sharing and guard that data sticker with your life.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 29, 2008, 07:27:12 pm
xeler8ion- The color publicity photo has "Boss 351" decals.  But, the car depicted is the Boss 302 Prototype which has no NASA Hood, nor any hood pins, and has other trim that was only on the Boss 302 Prototype, and not the actual production Boss 351. (Mach 1 and Boss trims)

In fact, here is another publicity photo of the car that's in the Black and White Photo, only this shot is in color, presumably taken the same day at the same location.  Notice how the rear decklid lettering looks like the "Boss 302" decal, EXCEPT the last two numbers have been changed to "51" with different sized, painted-looking lettering.  That's probably about the time the invoices for the car showed the VIN as "1F05R100053". 
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050005_large.jpg)

The car was thereafter, used as the Boss 351 Prototype and publicity car, with both Boss and Mach 1 trims.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 29, 2008, 09:27:15 pm
All invoices and the door tag call for black interior.  Also notice the lack of a rear quarter window.  My car doesn't have power windows, it has fixed rear quarter windows.  Wonder if they were originally going to put the roll-down rear windows on the fastbacks, (didn't the coupes have that? ) Or, was the rear window "air-brushed out" for ad appeal? Or was it not installed on publicity car till after the shoot? Or is this another of the prototype cars not found.  Since it appears to be shot out in the desert, and since mine was sent to Vegas and L.A., doubtful that it is a different car than mine. 

The funky interior color may also have been a temporary item, or a bit of ad-agency "photo-shop" retouch.  It was the 70's! Pschedelic, pop-art, mod style were the trend.  Remember the Mopar Rapid Transit wild Peter Max style art ads?  Hard to say for sure.  This is one of the best of the Publicity Photos below:
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050006_large.jpg)

The Kelsey Hayes Magstar rims (ala Shelby style) were removed by Ford and replaced with standard production 15" Magnum 500's in preparation for retail sale of the car.  I really suspect Ford was looking to immitate much of the 69/70 Shelby Mustang styling with this new for 1971 Boss 302 prototype car, and all of the new for 1971 Mustang body styles, for that matter. -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Rick67 on January 29, 2008, 11:14:14 pm
I wouldn't do any to it for a while.
Drive it some, collect your thoughts and then decide.
It seems to be one of kind for sure.
Rick
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: rexfields302 on January 30, 2008, 01:15:08 am
 This is one interesting story! A story that everyone dreams of ! I agree with Rick to take your time & collect your thoughts before restoring. Those rims on it in the photo shots sure look cool.

  Best of luck whatever you decide!     
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1owner on January 30, 2008, 12:20:54 pm
the roll down quarter window and the different color interior tells me they are two different cars.  im not knocking your cool find in any way.  just make sure you gather all the facts before you can present them as the gospel.  keep up the good work..
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 30, 2008, 02:37:22 pm
Competitionorange, and 1owner,--

First, I agree completely.  There is nothing that can be said "as Gospel."  We can only look at the weight of the evidence and form opinions at this point.  It's an ongoing investigation.

One correction to your observations.  You are looking at the wrong black and white photo.  The one you are referring to is almost certainly not my car, since that one has a spoiler and argent silver contrasting paint.  That's the Motor Trend photo, along with the Boss 302 engine photo that has been repeatedly posted here and elsewhere.  Would love to find that one.

I'm refering to the other black and white publicity photo.  The one shown below:
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050003_large.jpg)
This one was taken in the desert, and was likely a "set-up" photo taken just prior to taking the color photos of the Grabber yellow publicity car.  This car had the funky colored red (or orange?) interior in the published photos.  It also doesn't seem to have a rear quarter-window, see below:
But, ad agencies do lots of stuff to ad photos before releasing them, so you can't say the car had orange interior or no window, as "Gospel" either.  J.Walter Thompson and Associates were amazing ad people even in 1970.  Maybe someone will come forward with personal knowledge or recollections.

While the "H" code 4-speed isn't "valuable" or desirable strictly from a performance point of view, it is the 1 of 1 production, (along with the reason it was built as such) that makes it such a rarety.  Also, it is the original motor from this car, as when finally sold by Wilson Ford.  I agree that a Boss 302 under the hood would've been an even better find!  I wish! 

BTW, the car likely was "G" code first, then "R" code and finally "H" code.  I say this because none of the invoices show a "G" code, though the car was assembled with that dash tab and door tag.  Paperwork is easy to change (6 invoices in this case).  I don't think they changed the windshield tab and door tag more than once.  Maybe we'll find out though!

Finally, I do think there could be 3 different prototypes shown in all of these photos, absent additional information.  AND, there is also another prototype photo in the September or October 1970 issue of Car Craft that depicts a darker color car.  Looks like a gold/yellow or dark mustard color and has racing slicks ON MAGSTARS!  A really different photo than the ones we've been seeing.  I'll post it if I can find it. Thanks for the comments -Andy

Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 30, 2008, 08:18:19 pm
The publicity photos of the Grabber Yellow car all seem to exhibit Boss 351 decals, but the "51" is definitely butchered.  That would be consistent with the car having been first built as the "G" code, and later changed, as confirmed by Kevin Marti and the Ford doumentation.

All invoices specify "D/ Grabber Yellow"; All invoices say 1F05R except the last one, says 1F02H.  The Grabber Yellow publicity car is the only prototype I've seen that has all of the Mach1 trim, including the urethane and honeycomb and gas cap, same as my car.

Only the hidden door tag, and the Ford Communicatons memo state the car was a "G" code and "an original show unit" that "needs to be changed before it can be sold." The Kevin Marti document says this car was the Boss 302 Prototype before the "program was cancelled".  All invoices call for black interior.  First invoice says car was sold to Ford Marketing in California, and shipped to Las Vegas Convention Center for the automobile show.  Doesn't even have any prices on it.

I've been told that 1971 was the first year EPA required Hydrocarbons and NOX certification for each type of motor.  If that is the case, and since the Boss 302 was no longer going to be sold in any vehicle, they probably couldn't let just one go out the door.  As old Kramer used to say, "it's a crap shoot out there."  :D 

Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: crossboss on January 31, 2008, 10:54:21 am
Hi Andy,
I dont know if this may help or not for your car, but here is a possible lead:  Bill(??) Stroppe handled all the west coast media cars, as I shot a lot of Ford commericals in the late 80s/early 90s, and all our cars came from his shop. I also remember reading the old articles about the Boss 351 magazine tests and Stroppe prepped-- aka "ringers" for the testers of the time. He may have done your car--assembled/prepped/changed things around for Ford/media and for the re-sale. If memory serves, his shop was in Long Beach, Ca.  They may have paperwork on what was done to your car...who knows. Hope this helps!
--Scott  aka "crossboss"
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 31, 2008, 12:27:32 pm
Wow! Thanks Scott.  That's the kind of info I need.  I will see what I can find out.  I wonder if Donald Farr or Jim Smart have any leads on his current whereabouts.  Thanks for the lead!

You would really laugh if you heard some of the conversations I've had, like when I called the Ford Dealer.  Wilson Ford is long gone.  I spoke to 3 different people, from personel to sales management.  I was only looking for somebody working there in sales or service, who might be a "Vintage Mustang enthusiast."

I wanted to see if I could get someone there interested in looking for some past, long term employees or former employees, who might know the name of a previous long term employee, so I could work my way backward.  To put it politely, I was "blown off," as though I was expecting someone from 1970 to still be working there! LOL!!

 (although.....I do know a lot of people who are still at their same jobs from 1970, now that I think about it.  The oldest continously operating Chevy plant is in my town!)

They could see no value in tying the past sale of this showcar/prototype to their dealership at all.  This, when Ford is talking about releasing the new "Boss 302 is Back" program.  At one point, when I asked one person, "are you familiar with the 1970 Boss 302 Mustang?"  The reply was, "Uh,...I am not aware of this car."  I was eventually told, "Sir, everyone who works here is young, and has no interest in antique Mustangs."  That's really a hoot when you think about where in California, this car was sold.

Thank again for the info -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on January 31, 2008, 12:56:02 pm
Hi Andy,
I dont know if this may help or not for your car, but here is a possible lead:  Bill(??) Stroppe handled all the west coast media cars, as I shot a lot of Ford commericals in the late 80s/early 90s, and all our cars came from his shop. I also remember reading the old articles about the Boss 351 magazine tests and Stroppe prepped-- aka "ringers" for the testers of the time. He may have done your car--assembled/prepped/changed things around for Ford/media and for the re-sale. If memory serves, his shop was in Long Beach, Ca.  They may have paperwork on what was done to your car...who knows. Hope this helps!
--Scott  aka "crossboss"
Scott, I just Googled Bill Stroppe.  My jaw is still dropped!!! What a guy!  Sadly, he passed in 1995, but his son still operates the business, and according to the Newspaper, Ford Motor Company was still one of his biggest customers.  This could really turn out.  I've got some work to do.
-Thanks again!- Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: shotgun on January 31, 2008, 08:21:37 pm
Perhaps you would consider bringing your cool find to the Boss Nationals in Tulsa. I think a lot of Boss enthusiasts would appreciate the opportunity to see this rare gem.
Either way, I have to agree, your openness about the car is quite refreshing!
Hope to see you in Tulsa!

Mike
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 428Eliminator on January 31, 2008, 11:47:17 pm
Hello Andy,
I used to own 1F05J100066 now owned by the Ian Flemming Foundation. Sent you a PM.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: dfarr on February 01, 2008, 11:43:56 am

We received some additional information from Kevin Marti this week regarding '71 Boss 302s. He says eight were scheduled to be built - 5 at Dearborn and 3 at Metuchen. 100053 was the only one built, all others were canceled. Actually, 2 were bucked at Metuchen but canceled before they were built. So it appears that Andy's car is the only one.

That brings up the question about the Motor Trend car. Knowing that car magazines work so far in advance, I suspect that car may have been a pilot car. I haven't been able to find that particular issue here in our unorganized magazine archives, but seems it was a "New car" issue, likely September, which means the car would have been available for photography in May or June, way before 100053 was built in early August. Also, I seem to recall that the magazine did not drive the car, just reported on it, which again points to the likelihood that it was a pilot car.

Someone mentioned the psychodelic colors used back then. Remember the green '70 Boss 302 with red interior that was used for some promo shots?

Donald
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: crossboss on February 01, 2008, 02:50:05 pm
Hi back Andy,
Glad to help! Hope you can get some info out of Stroppe! BTW, are you in Calif/LA??
--Scott  aka "crossboss"
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 01, 2008, 06:37:14 pm
Wow! That is fantastic information from Kevin Marti, posted above by Donald Farr.  Reading that post gave me the same feeling as when I peeled up that Door Tag and discovered the "G" code in the VIN!  I can't thank Donald Farr and Jim Smart (and certainly Kevin Marti) enough for all the work they have done, and all the facts they have brought out on this 37-year-old mystery!!

That expression "the Boss is Back" is taking on a new meaning for me.

Crossboss, I already heard back from Mr. Stroppe, who said while it is highly likely that Stroppe Engineering did do the work on this car, they do not have any records that go back 37 years.  However, he expressed that he too believed this car was a very rare find, and referred me to some very good contacts with Ford's Markteting and Advertising people.  I've already made phone contact and had some very informative conversation, and received some more important leads! 

Talking and corresponding with these different people has been a real trip.  The history they possess is stunning and priceless.  All have been cordial and willing to take a moment, even though they have tight time constraints and many pressing work matters.

As a sidenote, when I was looking up Bill Stroppe and Son Engineering, I noticed that Ron Sizemore is listed as their Western Regional Test Fleet Manager for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars.  So, I dug a little deeper. Check out this link:
 
http://beach.freedomblogging.com/2007/12/13/ron-sizemore-honored-at-laguna-surf-and-sport/

BTW, Stroppe Engineering is mentioned in the last paragraph, if you wonder about that being the same man.  Now, think about that 1972 Ford Mustang Magazine Ad... is that cool or what?
-Andy
One additional tidbit, I was told by someone very knowlegable, and "in a position to know" that it was not unusual for them to change the interior color, exterior color and just about anything else they wanted, for Marketing and Advertising purposes.  Interesting!
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Rustin on February 07, 2008, 07:36:25 pm
I bought the H Pipe that was on E By just because ?????? Anyway it would be good to put it with the 71 car if he needs it.  Sent an E Mail and havent heard yet.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 07, 2008, 10:40:08 pm
Hi Rustin,
I got your email about the H-pipe.  I'm not sure if that is just a 302 h-pipe for a 1971, or something unique to the Boss 302.  I have a lot to learn about this subject, and info is understandably scarce.  Let me know what info you have and how much you are looking for. 

I see one fellow recently listed a set of 1971 Boss 302 trunk decals on Ebay for $1500.00 starting bid!!  (I think they can be duplicated by using repro "BOSS 429" and "BOSS 351" decals, stealing the "O" and the "2" from the "BOSS 429."  ;))

Anyway, let me know what you have.  Thanks. -Andy
P.S. Got an extra D1ZE Boss 302 motor under the bench, for sale? (or would that be D1ZZ?.... ??? ???)
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 07, 2008, 11:00:33 pm
71 Boss 302 parts are actually relatively common and sell for very little comparatively due to the low actual demand (last I checked you were the only serious buyer! LOL). The guy on the decals is nutso and I used to see piles of them at Carlisle but nobody was even remotely interested. I would call some of the big east coast dealers and see if any still have some. The exhaust is Boss only. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on February 08, 2008, 12:26:36 am
very interesting stuff!

This puts together the story about what I was told on my car that there was in fact 1 71 Boss 302 built.

My car being the last of 30 Boss 302 Promo cars was supposed to have been used to somehow promote the 71 BOss 302 before the program was suddenly dropped. How I would love to find some type of press photos on my car!  I did have one pic a ford person was able to send but my computer crashed and lost it along with the person who gave its info....

as my error in posting what was intended here in the Boss 351 section.

I was told when I bought my car that it was purchased from ford with a 429CJ rear leaf spring and I just blew it off as "it would not fit" but lo & behold when I took car apart and started to clean up suspension there were the 71 429CJ springs with the red-red/orange-orange rear springs!  I was also told the pop open gas cap was on it along with the chrome radiator hold down because it was a promo car. Good enough for me even though others will argue it could not have been...

Andy, Really nice to see the long lost 71 Boss 302 has been found !  a great read.

If you have any contacts you would care to share to help me find more info on my "Last Promo Boss 302" it would be appreciated.

Again on my car Kevin Marti was super in helping me get the info I do have. Of course he still had the original 2page invoice for it also!

Gets me excited to get back to finish my car as its been apart for 4yrs now...
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on February 08, 2008, 12:37:25 am
talking about how cars changed for media pics (colors etc) I wanted to add that even today ford does this stuff. For instance the GT500KR press car (silver with blue) was not even a shelby to start with. the red with white stripes GT500 car that made the show rounds started as a 6cyl ! (yes I took pics of the VINS)

The blue metallic car (non KR) that was at SAAC32 did start out as a GT500 and was there with the prototype blower (TVS) which I was lucky enough to get a few rides in with and without racing tires!

So yes, totally believable ford would switch badges, colors, interior colors etc.  I did speak with a retired ford guy who said some times the cars would be totally different from side to side! and that the people setting them up were very good at hiding the fact. They would do multiple photo shoots for different ads with same car same day.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 08, 2008, 08:02:36 am
Hey, FordPromoBos-
Liked reading your posts, and seeing your garage.  I'm still drooling.  I too, was told that Ford did this kind of thing.  How about a 428SCJ that was really a 6-cyl in one ad !

So far, I haven't really gotten very far finding someone with actual knowledge or documentation of any kind, but a few ideas.  I think we need to develop some avenue to get access to "Ford's" Photo Media Archives.  (Before the Chapter 7 sale....OMG! )  It could be a very good excuse for an extended visit to Dearborn.

I'm kinda new here.  Is your promo Boss a '70 Boss2 with those items, or a 71 Boss1.  Were the 30 cars you mentioned '71?  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: svo2scj on February 08, 2008, 09:35:14 pm
CROSSBOSS (Scott)

Sent you a PM (did you see)!!!????
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on February 09, 2008, 01:33:49 am
Hey, FordPromoBos-
Liked reading your posts, and seeing your garage.  I'm still drooling.  I too, was told that Ford did this kind of thing.  How about a 428SCJ that was really a 6-cyl in one ad !

So far, I haven't really gotten very far finding someone with actual knowledge or documentation of any kind, but a few ideas.  I think we need to develop some avenue to get access to "Ford's" Photo Media Archives.  (Before the Chapter 7 sale....OMG! )  It could be a very good excuse for an extended visit to Dearborn.

I'm kinda new here.  Is your promo Boss a '70 Boss2 with those items, or a 71 Boss1.  Were the 30 cars you mentioned '71?  -Andy

THANKS!

My car is a '70 Dearborn. The 30 promo cars I am talking about were 1970 Boss 302's mine being the last of the 30.

At one time I was able to access a few pics in the media archives but lost my link to get in. It was very limited what I could see but there were hundreds of pics to view. I was able to view just small photos and a payment was required for a larger size.  I was told if I were to go to dearborn in person with a request to view prior to my visit I would be able to see more and even get copies. I will have to ask one of my Ford buddies again exactly whats needed. Very hard to get any Ford people (very few have access) to give you anything from archives. Did a big favor for a Fomoco emplyee so was able to get the one pic of my car but all I have left is a avatar size pic of it.

Am thinking this coming summer I may make a trip there to see if I can get more info. I think its especially interesting as my car has some type connection to yours. What is your build date? There is supposed to be some pics of our cars together at some point but I have no idea of where or when. The person who bought it from ford had big time connections so no changes were made prior to him getting it. He was able to pick it up same day it was released for sale.

After seeing your posts I actually started to work on it again today after a pretty long lull since I painted it.
Hopefully will get it up and running for first time in about 4yrs within the next week or so.

If you want to send me an email so others who are not interested in this stuff do not have to read it its:
I probably have a 100 hrs researching date codes etc on these cars.

Maybe if we both do a bit of legworth and share some stuff we can get some archive info on our cars. its there just hard to get someone to help out. I have had some bigwigs make promises but they have not followed through.

superdragpak-boss9f100 @  yahoo dot com
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Rustin on February 09, 2008, 08:35:19 am
Hi Andy,

This is an NOS Ford piece. It is seriously unlikely that you'll find another one and the repos for a 1969 or 70 will not work for you( atleast with DiZE manifolds). Not to mention that original Ford pieces are heaveier metal , better made, fit better, last longer..... Please call or write if you want to know more. 

Rusty
210 279 3673
csatexas@aol.com
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 09, 2008, 08:59:34 am
Actually, sad as it may seem the 71 pieces are out there in some numbers. Because nobody can use them they do not command a premium price. Some of teh big east coast dealers are likely to have some in stock if they are hoarders, if not they already threw them away because they can't sell them. I used to see tons of this stuff at Carlisle and even some at Hershey (not so much, it used to old cars only!). It is a shame that Ford didn't build 71 Boss 302's because they made enough parts for a ton of cars and pulled the plug at the last second. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 09, 2008, 04:20:29 pm
Rustin, could you email me a photo, or a link to a photo of the piece, and your asking price.  Don't know if I'm that interested, since it is a long expensive road to put a Boss 302 in the car, but I'm thinking about my options.

Hawkrod, thanks for the advice.  I will have to check around for those decals and such.  I know an alleged '71 Boss 302 Holley carb was recently posted on eBay, but I think it sold for lots of dollars.  Since I'm in the process of finding parts for, and restoring my Boss 351, the poorhouse will come fast!

FordPromoBoss302- here's the response I posted on the other link for the info you requested, in case you didn't see it:

FordPromoBoss302- Just found your other post.  My car was built on Aug 3, 1970 and "gate released" Aug, 4th a.m.  I don't really have the order date, buck-date info (nor a buck tag, probably removed when car was "de-bossed" Ouch!).  When I spoke to Kevin Marti, and we discussed the 6 invoices and Ford Communications Memo, he agreed to write a letter-report, explaining the significance of these items and the "Boss 302 Prototype" use of the car, which he did very well for me.

When I asked about doing a "Marti Report", he said it wouldn't tell much more, and would really just be for 1F02H100053.  Since Ford really seemed to have removed the car's "G" code paperwork, as since there is no "G" code invoice, I didn't do the standard form Marti report.  That was almost 2 years ago, now.  So, there's new info being found now, by Donald Farr and Kevin Marti.


I have some other info about the Dearborn stuff.  I will email you.

-Andy


Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 09, 2008, 05:02:58 pm
Carbs and engine pieces will always bring money as they have value to the non-restorer, it is teh 71 specific parts like decals and such that tend to be cheap. I hate to think what air cleaner that car should have though! When I get a chance I will see if it is listed in my fall of 70 MPC's. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: gsjohnson on February 11, 2008, 03:28:05 pm
Excellent find and reading.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Mike G. on February 11, 2008, 05:51:47 pm
I have a NOS D1ZE shortblock and NOS D1ZE assembled heads if interested. Mike    giordanome@aol.com
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: crossboss on February 11, 2008, 09:33:25 pm
Hey Mark--just replyed to your PM.
--Scott   "crossboss"
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 17, 2008, 08:49:27 am
Carbs and engine pieces will always bring money as they have value to the non-restorer, it is teh 71 specific parts like decals and such that tend to be cheap. I hate to think what air cleaner that car should have though! When I get a chance I will see if it is listed in my fall of 70 MPC's. Hawkrod

Hawkrod, I was just wondering if you ever found the air cleaner(s) in the 1970 or 71 MPC? Since this car was apparently displayed as a non-ramair version of the Boss (as seen in the publicity photos), and the Ford memo asks Dearborn to "send out a new aircleaner decal", do you think it had the same aircleaner as the 1970 non-ramair B2's? 

However,since the car still has ramair hood springs, and the since the first invoice (1F05R) calls for the NASA hood on the car, it may have originally had a unique B2 ramair cleaner while the "G" code motor was still under the hood, like the one in the black and white photo of the other (pilot?) car.  Need photos of my car, from that Las Vegas Car Show!

I am also wondering if the California DMV might have a microfilm copy of the original Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (wouldn't that be something if Ford never changed it?  There is no mention of it in the communications memo, so the dealer probably made the changes, or I assume the title would have had the "G" code in the VIN.) -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 17, 2008, 10:23:48 am
I have not done much this week. I had reconstructive surgery on my right shoulder Wednesday. Only the comedown from the happy pills even lets me be lucid. As soon as that next 8 hour window opens I am back in bed with drugs flowing through my veins! I am typing one handed and not lifting anything heavier than a single sheet of paper for the next few days. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 17, 2008, 06:14:43 pm
Hawkrod- It hurts just to read about it!  Hope you can rest easy and get well soon.  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 18, 2008, 11:01:16 pm
Thanks. Yes, it hurts but hopefully it will turn out not to be as bad as the chronic pain I have been living with for the last few years. I was electrocuted about 2 1/2 years ago and and it damaged tisue and bone in my shoulder. The surgery was to remove some bone and repair as many torn muscles as possible. The hope is the chronic pain will go away and I won't be so damn grumpy all the time! LOL The air cleaner for a 71 Boss 302 was a D1ZZ-9600-B and was a Boss 302 unit. I do not have pictures but I will bet it is basically the same as a 429 CJ with either a different top ring, the ring indexed differently or it is the same but has a taller rubber seal (it is about 3/4 inch taller but same diameter). The snorkel was the same as a 70-72 429 non CJ so the base is not the familiar flat plate bottom like CJ's and Boss' are known for. It is also similar to the 351 Cleveland base but without the thermal switch and the ring for the seal is smaller in diameter. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on February 19, 2008, 11:09:19 am
Thanks. Yes, it hurts but hopefully it will turn out not to be as bad as the chronic pain I have been living with for the last few years. I was electrocuted about 2 1/2 years ago and and it damaged tisue and bone in my shoulder.

You were killed?

I am actually still fuzzy on that one, If by killed do you mean my heart stopped? Then yes, if you mean a lack of brain activity some would still argue yes! LOL Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1owner on February 19, 2008, 11:32:01 am
Whoa Hawkrod!!!  Good to know you are still here with us!! You have probably forgotten more than a lot of us will ever know... lol
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 19, 2008, 01:55:08 pm
The air cleaner for a 71 Boss 302 was a D1ZZ-9600-B and was a Boss 302 unit. I do not have pictures but I will bet it is basically the same as a 429 CJ with either a different top ring, the ring indexed differently or it is the same but has a taller rubber seal (it is about 3/4 inch taller but same diameter). The snorkel was the same as a 70-72 429 non CJ so the base is not the familiar flat plate bottom like CJ's and Boss' are known for. It is also similar to the 351 Cleveland base but without the thermal switch and the ring for the seal is smaller in diameter. Hawkrod

Hawkrod-  Thanks for the valuable information.  Sounds like I won't find one of these in a local garage sale!  :(  Hang in there, and speedy recovery to ya!  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: jvkblue70boss on February 26, 2008, 09:47:46 pm
I was an engineer at Ford and worked on the 1971 Mustang program from the time it was transferred from the Advanced Program Department to our Production Design Department.  The design originally included a sub-frame under the front end similar to the Camaro, but the design would have cost considerably more due to the large assembly plant tooling changes required.  My chief engineer asked my principal engineer and me to investigate the use of a more carryover front end design to reduce the cost.  We were required to make space to accommodate the Boss 429 engine without the kind of modifications necessary in the 1969-70 vehicles.  This of course required the structure to be wider and heavier to handle the weight of that engine and the 429CJ/SCJ engines that were also planned.  The Boss 302 engine and Boss 351 engines were both in the program.  The Boss 302 to allow the car to be raced in the TransAm races and the Boss 351 to provide a more powerful street vehicle to compete with the Camaro, Firebird, Cuda, Challenger, etc.  With the decision to pull out of the TransAm racing series as a factory there was no longer a need for the Boss 302 production car. 

I drove a 1971 Boss 302 on the Ford Dearborn Proving Ground ride & handling track where we were taking pictures to be used in the Long Lead Press conference in June 1970.  That vehicle was an engineering prototype that was built many months and possible a full year before the car in question that was built in August 1970 at Dearborn Assembly Plant.  I did have pictures of that car and I will try to find them and if any good I will post a few on this forum.

I had suggested that the Mustang could be smaller and lighter if we limited the engines to the Boss 351 and smaller as insurance rates for large engines were going thru the roof in any case as well.  But being a lowly engineer my opinion was not considered “worthy” of much consideration by the executives in charge at the time.  The car as a result became too large and heavy in my view, and no Boss 429 and not many 429 engine equipped Mustangs were even sold.  We ended up using a modified 1970 Torino front structure and dash panel (firewall) on the 1971 which also allowed use of the Torino’s heater and heater/air conditioning systems.  As a result we did reduce the tooling cost for the vehicle by a considerable amount.   

At least we were able to get the improved integral power steering system in the vehicle by using the GM Saginaw Steering Division’s variable rate unit which was a improvement over the linkage assist system used before.  We also proposed using a tunnel-mounted parking brake lever for 1971 and had a 1969 Boss 302 so equipped for evaluation by company management.  The system was lighter and less expensive and worked great plus being more sporty as well.  The idea was considered too extreme apparently as they would not approve changing to that design.

I’ve enjoyed reading all the input on this subject.  I did see the article in Mustang Monthly and find it interesting that apparently one Boss 302 1971 Mustang did get built at Dearborn Assembly and was sold after being modified.  Anything is and was possible in the past.  It immediately got my attention as I remembered driving a 1971 Boss 302 many years ago.

I hope some of this information is interesting to you guys.   
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on February 26, 2008, 11:01:22 pm
I think this is a great find, However, how do you determine legally what this car is???  It is a DMV nightmare, 3 different vin codes, Even if you can verify this you can by no means change the VIN to suit your needs.... This has been discussed here in lengths in many ways and many fashions...The fact is that it was changed by the only one legally allowed to do so Ford Motor Co.  Its a 1 of 1 H code 4speed and thats awesome.  I really other then the fun of it, and history of it, cannot denote anything else from this.  You can buy all the Boss stuff assemble it, paint it, but it will legally be a 71 H code Mustang. Thats the way it was sold to the public. The only issue being somebody didn't do there job removing the old door sticker.  I believe this sticker to say "Not for title or registration"  Ford did this for a reason and the reason was they did not want people showing up to buy B2's... Awesome car and great history but the final chapter is H code 4 speed, any way you look at it...The history is worth as much as the car...Find all the history you can, keep the car as it was sold to the public and that will be how its worth the most!! Start talking to the DMV about swapping vins and they will probably come get you and the car...Again good luck and nice car,,,

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Mike G. on February 27, 2008, 04:49:38 am
jvkblue70boss thanks for your post, very interesting. I am sure you have some great stories about your days at Ford. Would love to hear more! Mike 
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: pinboss9 on February 27, 2008, 06:00:33 am
Very interesting in deed!!!

Joe
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on February 28, 2008, 09:06:02 am
jvkblue70boss-  Thanks for the Post!  I would apprceciate it if you could post any photos you have whatsoever, no matter what the condition.  What color was the 71 Boss 302 that you drove?

I have a suspicion that this car may have been built long before the date stated on the door Patent Tag.  Notice that the original Boss 302 tag on the car (the one it was born with) is actually a 1970 door tag, while the top "over-tag" is a 1971 door tag.

Also, none of the paperwork on the car from the August 3, 1970 "supposed" build date, shows the original VIN of 1F02G100053.  How could the car have a dash tab and door tag installed on Aug. 3rd, while on the same day the first known invoice is printed and shows 1F05R and states the car is a Boss 351?

Naturally, you are an invaluable source of info on this topic and it's great that you have signed in!  Thanks! -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on February 28, 2008, 12:56:05 pm
This has been my point about the car, I think you will find it is probably the very car this gentleman drove...  Therefore as he said it was built long before the last 70 B2 was.. I am not knocking the car in any way, it has uncomparable history of what might have been. Though with the vin and paperwork discrepancy, this car may be trump in pursuit of the last B2 mustang, But may not be high Trump.. I have submitted paperwork to M-A-W and am currently working on the Last Jersey "Built"car and I believe Mike Sudek is doing the same for Dearborn.... I will Post the findings

FRED ASHMORE


Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Wiking John on February 28, 2008, 02:55:36 pm
I have a suspicion that this car may have been built long before the date stated on the door Patent Tag. 

Any datecodes on fenders, doors or the hood?

You might find a datecode wraped around some of the wiring under the dash.

John
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on March 02, 2008, 04:30:45 pm
Was at the book store today while my daughter was swimming and came across this article, The article was about searching the salvage yards for muscle car  jewels.....and you will never guess what they found.....a 1971, Mustang H code four speed.. The car had ram air and they broke the vin down..they also went over the car with a comb determining what was original and what was not...  Talk about coincidense,,,,,, could this be another overlooked one off car??? 

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 03, 2008, 11:23:49 pm
I will definitely look for that article.  That doesn't surprise me too much because my car was "off the radar" almost completely, so I wondered if that statistic included mine.  I think my car may not be included in any of the 1971 statistics, or perhaps that "1805/1806" Boss 351 production number discrepancy.

After all, how many 1971 Boss 302's are listed in the production guide?  I think the preface says there are 6 VIN's reserved, and none ever built.  Guess we will be seeing a revision.

Thanks for the "heads-up" on the article.
-Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on March 04, 2008, 07:13:42 am
FRED ASHMORE,<<<<------------------Ignorant Jerk is good for something!!! LOL
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on March 04, 2008, 10:33:51 am
I have a suspicion that this car may have been built long before the date stated on the door Patent Tag. 

Any datecodes on fenders, doors or the hood?

You might find a datecode wraped around some of the wiring under the dash.

John
pretty much all the sheet metal will have date codes along with most other things that bolt on
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302- additional info
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 04, 2008, 06:14:32 pm
For those following the subject of my 1971 Boss 302 "G" code car, I thought I should post the rear axle and I.D. tag photo and data in this thread, since we got caught up in things over in the "Last Boss 302 Built" thread.

(http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050009_medium.jpg)

Hawkrod posted the following info concerning the I.D. tag, which is obviously crucial info to support the fact that the car was a "regular production 1971 Boss 302", and probably the last Boss 302 Built in Dearborn (August 3, 1970 build), if there were no other 1971 B2's built: Partial quote, as it relates to above only:


snip

Okay, that is the correct rear and now we have proof that your car would have been the last Boss built unless there are other 71's. The date code on your tag shows that it was from a very early 71 off of the regular production line AFTER 70 production ceased. The tag is dated after the end of the 1970 production cycle and line change. This means the car was built either very late in July (4th week) or more likely in the begining of August 1970. Hawkrod

It was also pointed out by Hawkrod, that according to the Ford documentation this rearend was only used on G, R, C and J code cars and nothing else.  That would be consistent with the car's documentation as a "G" code build.

Fred Ashmore has pointed out an inconsistency when comparing the tag info stated in the Marti Book on the subject.  However (and I hope I have this right) neither source shows this I.D. tag as correct for an "H" code car, as this car was later VIN'd in Los Angeles.  Feel free to correct me guys, if any of what I said is screwed up.

There's much additional info posted on the other thread concerning decoding the I.D. tag.  Just follow Hawkrod's quote back to that thread.  Thanks to everybody who pitched in to provide info about the I.D.  -Andy

Title: Update!!
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 21, 2008, 09:49:44 pm
Donald Farr and the folks at Mustang Monthly have posted the 71 Boss 302 "Lost Boss" prototype story on the Mustang Monthly website.  The photos are much larger and sharper than they appeared in the magazine.

Also, they uploaded a photo of the Ford Communications Memo concerning de-bossing the car:
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0802_1971_mustang_boss/photo_04.html
Their website prevents importing the image directly, so you will need to click on the above link to see it, or go directly to the online story. 
Many thanks again, to Donald Farr, Jim Smart and Mustang Monthly!!  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on March 21, 2008, 11:06:32 pm
The moving exposure engine shot shows your mystical air cleaner. It is a 351 Cleveland/429CJ (not SCJ) style and has a 429 snorkel (not to hard to find) that I mentioned before. I am actually quite pleased with myself as it was purely a guess on my part but it appears as if I was spot on! You can buy one of those repop 351 ram air units and put a 429 snorkel on it (I probably have a couple) and you will have pretty much what you need. If you do this you will not need the thermal vacuum switch that the 351 cars had. In fact, that may actually have been what Ford did. The Boss 302 ram air may have been the same as the 351 but with no switch in the base. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130139640465 . Now that I look, I think it is more like the 429CJ unit: http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/information_2.htm . The difference between a Boss 302 and a 429 may have only been the rubber seal. Another thought came to me in the night, It can't be a 429 base because those were cut for Rochester carbs not Ford/Holley. maybe the Boss was a 351 style lower tin with the 429 seal ring welded on as that would definitely be a very specific application part and nothing like anything else but still easy to fake. Hawkrod
Title: Re: Update!!
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on March 21, 2008, 11:14:04 pm
Donald Farr and the folks at Mustang Monthly have posted the 71 Boss 302 "Lost Boss" prototype story on the Mustang Monthly website.  The photos are much larger and sharper than they appeared in the magazine.

Also, they uploaded a photo of the Ford Communications Memo concerning de-bossing the car:
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0802_1971_mustang_boss/photo_04.html
Their website prevents importing the image directly, so you will need to click on the above link to see it, or go directly to the online story. 
Many thanks again, to Donald Farr, Jim Smart and Mustang Monthly!!  -Andy

Andy,  SUPER COOL!  I really think you need to put in a boss 302 engine and restore the car to as left the factory!

Just think the original Boss 302 engine is probably still somewhere in southern california...
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 22, 2008, 09:55:13 pm
The moving exposure engine shot shows your mystical air cleaner. It is a 351 Cleveland/429CJ (not SCJ) style and has a 429 snorkel (not to hard to find) that I mentioned before. I am actually quite pleased with myself as it was purely a guess on my part but it appears as if I was spot on! You can buy one of those repop 351 ram air units and put a 429 snorkel on it (I probably have a couple) and you will have pretty much what you need. If you do this you will not need the thermal vacuum switch that the 351 cars had. In fact, that may actually have been what Ford did. The Boss 302 ram air may have been the same as the 351 but with no switch in the base. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130139640465 . Now that I look, I think it is more like the 429CJ unit: http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/information_2.htm . The difference between a Boss 302 and a 429 may have only been the rubber seal. Another thought came to me in the night, It can't be a 429 base because those were cut for Rochester carbs not Ford/Holley. maybe the Boss was a 351 style lower tin with the 429 seal ring welded on as that would definitely be a very specific application part and nothing like anything else but still easy to fake. Hawkrod

Hawkrod- Thanks for the detailed air cleaner info.  Couple of questions.  If the Boss 302 used a Ford/Holley carb, wouldn't the Boss 351 base be cut for the Autolite 4300D (isn't that a Rochester?)  I'm not very familar with the Boss 302 stuff yet, as most of my limited experience has been with the Boss 351.  AND since Ford took the darned Boss 302 motor out..... ??? ??? ???

To make matters more complicated, since Ford was planning both a Ram-Air and a Non R.A. version of the 71 Boss 302, I'm guessing mine was originally built with the NASA hood (it still has those springs), then had it removed for the L.V. Car show display and Ad-Photos.  None of the photos show the car with a NASA hood (if that's truly my car, which I think it is.)  When the car was "debossed", it seems doubtful they would have taken off the NASA hood, but then later painted the "Boss Blackout style" on the plain hood.  It was probably done as part of the Boss 302 package they wanted to display.  Just guessing though.  Thanks for the help.
-Andy

P.S. to FordPromo- it's probably been blown up, and recycled into little ash tray souveniers sold at Knott's Berry Farm about 30 years ago! 
Or, I'm picturing the last scene in Planet of the Apes, only instead of the Statue of Liberty, there's this old cylinder block sticking up out of the sand, and you can vaguely make out the "100053" on it.  Chartleton Heston says, "that's impossible!  Dammitt!! Ford never built a 71 Boss 302!!!" :D :D



Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: FordPromoBOSS302 on March 22, 2008, 10:38:54 pm
The moving exposure engine shot shows your mystical air cleaner. It is a 351 Cleveland/429CJ (not SCJ) style and has a 429 snorkel (not to hard to find) that I mentioned before. I am actually quite pleased with myself as it was purely a guess on my part but it appears as if I was spot on! You can buy one of those repop 351 ram air units and put a 429 snorkel on it (I probably have a couple) and you will have pretty much what you need. If you do this you will not need the thermal vacuum switch that the 351 cars had. In fact, that may actually have been what Ford did. The Boss 302 ram air may have been the same as the 351 but with no switch in the base. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130139640465 . Now that I look, I think it is more like the 429CJ unit: http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/information_2.htm . The difference between a Boss 302 and a 429 may have only been the rubber seal. Another thought came to me in the night, It can't be a 429 base because those were cut for Rochester carbs not Ford/Holley. maybe the Boss was a 351 style lower tin with the 429 seal ring welded on as that would definitely be a very specific application part and nothing like anything else but still easy to fake. Hawkrod

Hawkrod- Thanks for the detailed air cleaner info.  Couple of questions.  If the Boss 302 used a Ford/Holley carb, wouldn't the Boss 351 base be cut for the Autolite 4300D (isn't that a Rochester?)  I'm not very familar with the Boss 302 stuff yet, as most of my limited experience has been with the Boss 351.  AND since Ford took the darned Boss 302 motor out..... ??? ??? ???

To make matters more complicated, since Ford was planning both a Ram-Air and a Non R.A. version of the 71 Boss 302, I'm guessing mine was originally built with the NASA hood (it still has those springs), then had it removed for the L.V. Car show display and Ad-Photos.  None of the photos show the car with a NASA hood (if that's truly my car, which I think it is.)  When the car was "debossed", it seems doubtful they would have taken off the NASA hood, but then later painted the "Boss Blackout style" on the plain hood.  It was probably done as part of the Boss 302 package they wanted to display.  Just guessing though.  Thanks for the help.
-Andy

P.S. to FordPromo- it's probably been blown up, and recycled into little ash tray souveniers sold at Knott's Berry Farm about 30 years ago! 
Or, I'm picturing the last scene in Planet of the Apes, only instead of the Statue of Liberty, there's this old cylinder block sticking up out of the sand, and you can vaguely make out the "100053" on it.  Chartleton Heston says, "that's impossible!  Dammitt!! Ford never built a 71 Boss 302!!!" :D :D





to add a little bit. My guess is in pic when first built it would have had a Holley as autolite carbs would not have had a smog pump. Same with 429cj to scj. no pump on a 429cj because a quadrajunk carb but the 429SCJ had smog because of the Holley Carb.
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on March 23, 2008, 09:21:32 am
Yes, a 71 Boss 302 carb is a Holley, there are plenty of them out there so that bit is easy to ID. The 71 SCJ air cleaner should be danged close but the Boss 351 has the offset that all Clevelad units did. I am really starting to confuse myself on this danged thing! LOL Hawkrod

BTW, the Rochester Quadrajet and an Autolite 4300D are two totally different carbs
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 23, 2008, 11:21:43 pm
Here is a picture of the Toploader I.D. tag on the 71 B2.  Any ideas as to what the numbers under the "RUG AV1" mean, or translate into??  Is it a date, or just a serial #. Thanks! -Andy

(http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1978/3101/29944050011_medium.jpg)
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Hawkrod on March 24, 2008, 10:10:48 am
RUG AV1 is the trans ID code. That translates to a 71 Mustang/Cougar Boss 302, 351 4V, Boss 351 wide ratio trans (2.78 first gear). The number low it is the serial number of the trans itself and has nothing to do with the car or anything else and is just the order it was assembled it at the drivetrain plant. Hawkrod
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on March 24, 2008, 07:40:58 pm
Hawkrod-  Thanks for the tag decode info! -Andy     
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Rustin on April 16, 2008, 08:35:49 pm
I put the NOS H Pipe on E Bay for the 71
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: Wiking John on September 07, 2008, 03:03:42 pm
I posted a close-up photo of the original 1971 Boss 302 door tag at this address, if you want to take a look:

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=35212.0

There are still a lot of unanswered questions about this car like: why does the earliest invoice list the VIN as 1F05R100053, with the usual Boss 351 package contents listed, including a ram air hood (the car still has ram air springs!).

Since the car was "born" as a G code, makes me believe there is some earlier "non-standard" paperwork that was lost, or hasn't been found yet.  Although, I have to say the Door tag, Invoices and Ford Communications Memo found so far are pretty breathtaking documentation.  Wish someone had a photo from that Las Vegas Auto Show.
-Andy


Andy

Your VIN# is here also;-)

Read on;

http://www.network54.com/Forum/234286/message/1220484007/Draw+your+own+concl

John
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on September 07, 2008, 07:10:23 pm
Any updates on the car??

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: ablue69 on September 07, 2008, 07:48:23 pm
A '71 Boss 302 and a Boss 302 Shelby.  Never say never indeed!  :o  NB
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on November 10, 2008, 06:49:44 pm
Any updates on the car??

FRED ASHMORE

Hi Fred, I just noticed your older post inquiring about an update on my 71 Boss 302.  Not much new to report. 

I'm guessing you probably saw the footnote under the photo of the car in the August Mustang Monthly, where Kevin Marti confirmed that it was the only 1971 Mustang to leave the plant with a Boss 302 motor in it.

I did come across one other bit of info that I think you will really enjoy seeing, if you haven't already.....check this out:

  http://www.network54.com/Forum/234286/thread/1219631751/Diamonds+are+Forever+Car+on+Ebay

Let all of the images load, and make sure you scroll down to the Eminger pages and her hand-written notes.  She logged the 1st 100 Vin's for all 1971 Mustangs and where they went.  Her letters to Donald Farr and the others is great stuff for those of us interested in documenting these cars. 

Notice that most of the first 100 were "special" use for movies, car shows and other promotions.  My car is listed as 1F05R100053, and her note appears to say, "no orig."  That's consistent with some of the original paperwork.  She then mentions in her letter to Donald Farr that it was later sold as a sportsroof "h" code car. 

Her list also shows that my car was far from being the first 1971 Mustang produced, which we wondered about. In fact, it looks like most of the first 100 VIN's were actually Mustangs, for 1971.

It's really great stuff.  Lois must have been quite the lady.  She will be greatly missed.  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 10, 2008, 10:22:08 pm
That was a great read..  I notice her note on your car and it said "02 no orig"  That in short hand would say...  (02) means fastback (no) means numberered, and (orig) means originally ..If you go down 2 pages there is a listing of what appears to be 1FO2G100026 AND 1FO1G100027 BOTH FOR EXPORT.. The only digit this could be mistaken for would be a C (429), but it is almost clearly a G or a 6..  So I am assuming yours was initially listed as an R code sportsroof Mach 1, and found later in her other paperwork listed as a std fastback (02) and was noted to reflect such??   Are the other two listed maybe two others that were  built, but were exported instead of disassembled or repowered??  I know that there were some low compression engine codes for export, but oddly enough both cars were Grabber colored, which are synonimous with Bosses or Hipo cars Usually..  Both of these cars are seperate from the rest of the list.. It may be worth looking into unless somebody knows different??  This is a great topic and I enjoy talking about it with you.. I hope my input has helped not hinder the authenticity of your very unique piece of history... Maybe H-rod can shed some light on it..  I cannot remember what the export low compression codes were, if any in 71..  Great info..  Thanks for the post and I hope all is well..  I wish I had this type of info with my cars!!  Let me know what you think or already may know about it...

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 06:04:18 am
Found my tag book and the digit is a 6 which is a low compression 302 2v for export, (which was one of my original assumptions) so the question I had was answered...  Still a very interesting article and I hope some of my input helped.. I am hoping to maybe find one of these rare gems if you couldn't tell!!

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on November 11, 2008, 07:33:59 pm
Fred, I welcome all input and points of view.  By the way, another interpretation of Lois' note about my car might be " 02, no original " meaning she did not have an original invoice for this car. 

I say this, because Marti Autoworks originally wrote to me saying they "had no paperwork for this VIN".  They later found the papers stored separately in a plastic bag with the Ford telegram and other invoices for this car.  But, your interp could be just as likely.

Now, if you really want to go treasure hunting, this is the prize you need to find, depicted in SuperStock Magazine in 1970.  Look at the trunk lettering:
 
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/awhawh/1971%20Boss%20302%201F02G100053/Med%20Blue%2071%20Boss%20302/a93b55b9.jpg)

I believe this is the car depicted in the Black and White photos posted earlier, which actually showed the Boss 302 under the hood.  The Blue and Argent colors would be consistent with the black and white photos.  This may be the pilot car that the Ford engineer spoke of, in an earlier post.  Sure looks like the real thing, street ready and all. 

This sure would be a real find, too!  I keep watching eBay, but lightning can't strike twice, can it!  -Andy

Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 07:49:11 pm
I definately will do..

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 08:14:16 pm
Andy if you look at the the note it says 02 in frt of the no orig... If you look at your G code vin door tag, it is an 02 series, not the 05 as it was listed with the R code record..  I would bet the side note means 0riginally numbered 02, which would support the Door tag you found on your car.. This would also explain why they did not sell it as the Boss 351 as was intended as it was labeled as an 05..  They would have required more extensive alterations besides a motor and Door tag swap...

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on November 11, 2008, 08:45:02 pm
Yeah, I kicked that around for a while, too.  And, since the car was built, tagged and VIN'd as 1F02G, you would think there had to be an initial invoice, somewhere, with that 1F02G VIN, before it was later called 1F05R on the paperwork (which is my earliest invoice.)

But, if you look at page 2 of her letter to Donald Farr, she states,

"The Mach 1 chart indicates that -053 was originally invoiced out and shipped as a Mach 1.  When actually it was re-invoiced and sold as a 1F02H100053 sportsroof."

That seems to be the chronology she had, so "02 no orig" is hard to decipher.  But you could certainly be right.  And she may have had other documents she referred to.

Lois didn't even seem to notice that this was the first, and only "R" code on the list.  But you have to remember she was specifically looking for the Mach 1's  (the DAF car.)   I was excited just to see her mention my car's VIN in her letter to Donald Farr.  -Andy


Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 08:52:48 pm
I can't blame you..  Just the mention gets you excited.. I got excited when I saw a car I worked on in Hemmings this month, I couldn't imagine how pumped I would have been if it was mine..

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 08:56:51 pm
Note on the car above the paint does not match on the trunk and lines up very poorly....  Maybe painted for the shoot and removed for the original later?? just an observation, but I will be on the look out...

FRED ASHMORE
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: 1F02G100053 on November 11, 2008, 09:05:02 pm
The most excitement for me was actually the August issue of Mustang Monthly, cause I had no idea they were doing that story.  The earlier issues I was watching for. 

But when the August issue came out, I was standing at the magazine rack at Walmart and I flipped through the Kevin Marti Interview.  And I was all excited cause he and Donald Farr both mentioned my car in the story a couple of times.  Then I flipped to the last page of the story and "wow" there was a big color photo of my car again.  And there was nobody there with me to show it to!  So, I showed the guy mopping the floors.  Then he asked me if that was a Ford.  -Andy
Title: Re: '71 Boss 302
Post by: fajr22 on November 11, 2008, 09:29:49 pm
Isn't that always the way....hahahahahaaahaahahahahaha

Fred Ashmore