BOSS 302 Exchange

BOSS 302 Forums => BOSS 302 Parts/Related For Sale => Topic started by: DUSTMAN69 on May 25, 2012, 12:04:41 pm

Title: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: DUSTMAN69 on May 25, 2012, 12:04:41 pm
What do you guys think of this one on e-bay. # 221032906386
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: CaBossFan on May 25, 2012, 12:43:33 pm
According to a previous Discussion Topic, the primary wire on the distributor being sold on eBay item #221032906386 is not correct for a Boss 302:

The 2011 Registry has a section on Boss 302 distributors on page 250.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: DUSTMAN69 on May 25, 2012, 01:19:11 pm
Yeah, and the other 1 he's selling is the same.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: brightgoldboss on May 25, 2012, 05:42:11 pm
     I looked at my dissy  &  hole is up close to the vac. adv.
                    YEA !                                                           Jim
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: daveb9 on May 25, 2012, 06:25:40 pm
Both of these distributors for sale are mine. They both have the same part numbers but the wire exit is in a different place on each one. I did not realize there was a difference when I listed it for sale on EBay. I will correct the info on the auction if that is absolutely the only way they came. To hold it in your hand and look at it you would never guess the numbers had been changed. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this site but people can be wrong. Is there any other way to tell if it is correct or not? I do not want to misrepresent it either way. Any help is appreciated.

Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: bosscougars on May 25, 2012, 08:15:38 pm
This one seems to be the correct one with the wrong parts as listed.

Boss 302 distributor (
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: timsa49erfan on May 29, 2012, 12:11:01 pm
This is not specifically addressed at the 2 distributors on ebay at this time, but rather to the notion/belief that a particular distributor isnt correct for a boss 302 just because it has the hole for the wire in a slightly different spot. 

Keep in mind that Ford had lots of variations in production and at times used different vendors and variations in production were common and THAT is something that only a fool would dispute, So why not in this case?  Just because a particular person started a thread and made it an issue and conviced some folks he was correct.  I don't buy it and frankly neither did the distributor builder I talked to that rebuilt one of each for me.  Please no names metioned to avoid the drama, but I will say he is the person who used to rebuild distributors for NPD and many high level restoration shops across the country.  The day I was there he was working for some for a well known restorer in Wisconsin. 

I personally have seen and worked on original B2 cars with original distributors that had the hole further away from the advance as mentioned.  I recall this issue/debate when it was started a couple years ago and IMHO, and again I dont buy it.  If you choose to believe it, thats your choice. 

When the part numbers on the distributors are correct and unaltered and if the rest of the distributor is correct, such as the X12 and dual points then who is to say its not a boss?  Who is to say that both types were not installed? 

Again, there are far too many production variances coming out of Ford, even between the different plants such as Dearborn and N.J to say that there was a hard core standard by which all cars and parts were built. 
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: Licorice on May 29, 2012, 04:20:55 pm
My take on all the parts is you get some who say it all and feel they re all knowing. Parts are parts as long as the numbers are not messed with is good to go.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on May 29, 2012, 07:21:24 pm
Love to hear 10w30dna's Tim O'conners take on this..
As a Ford tech I'd bet he's seen more distributors than any of us.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: daveb9 on May 29, 2012, 07:23:57 pm
Love to hear 10w30dna's Tim O'conners take on this..
As a Ford tech I'd bet he's seen more distributors than any of us.
Click on the link above and read it. I am sure that is why it was posted.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on May 29, 2012, 07:31:05 pm
I've read the link.

Was just hoping he could convince the doubter's, or revisionist's as they are sometimes called.
From Webster's " Revisionist"  a person who revises or favors the revision of, some accepted theory, doctrine, ect.
More and more showing up here.

Your effort to be honest is appreacited.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on May 31, 2012, 07:31:24 pm
Upon further thought..
I thought the Only manufactuer of Ford distributors was Autolite (original) or Motorcraft (service replacement). Disputes your "lots of vendors theory".
So your vendor variation doesn't hold up with me. As the numbers between the 2 are well documented,  they may not be the same, they are documented none the less.

And you fail to state where the hole was on that distributor that was being worked on by that Wisconsin restorer.

While NPD makes some good parts, many of us here know that some are good an others not so good.
Call me the Fool, sorry I dont agree with your take.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: bosscougars on June 01, 2012, 05:09:31 pm
McKeever---You are absolutely right and the wire hole location must be close to the clip for the distributor to be correct. There is another bogus one on eBay right now. A post has been made about it.

Boss 302 registry distributor description (
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: shotgun on June 02, 2012, 06:11:21 am
So what is the incorrect one for?
My car has the "correct" one, just curious?

Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: 10w30dna on June 06, 2012, 05:38:28 am
Just thought I would share my thoughts on this again........bogus Boss 302 distributors are not new , by any means. I started in Ford dealers in '66 and worked as a hands on Ford dealer tech for 43 years after that. I never saw a real Boss 302 distributor with the primary wire hole located in the standard 302 location. Never. There is an actual reason for the relocation of that hole. Ford engineers know what they build. It is not a bunch of backyard hot rodders that designed and built those cars.In fact, it was one of Henry Ford's successes to build "mass produced" cars by making each piece very accurately/precisely. Before that was accomplished many builders hand fit each part which caused serious delays in production and difficulty in getting replacement parts. Mass production lead to accuracy , not all the fumbling/bumbling some claim. All the funny stories about why a certain car has the wrong parts installed and "proof", based on doubt of facts,abound. You have seen them for years.......Thermactor delete , '70 hood on a '69 ,missing govenor on '70, HiPo 289 distributor ,wrong exhaust,wrong trans, wrong antenna, non-Carlite glass,wrong carburetor, wrong wiring ,etc,etc,etc. Many owners are simply repeating what they believe to be true. They were not aware of the changes made or were told by the seller it was authentic. Not a new game,at all. As the years go by the truth will become diluted by all the fictitious parts and stories and many future owners will be swearing on Bibles that all these phony parts are real. I have one of Mike Gehly's "masterpieces" in my shop now that one of our members got stung with. He filled the original/standard , hole and re-drilled the hole in correct location,restamped the numbers,installed narrow band advance that he stamped X12 and painted the band gold, and painted the distributor silver to try and hide all the evidence. He is not the only seller of bogus parts , just one of many. So don't fall for the stories of how inaccurate Ford was when building cars. The cars were well engineered and built very accurately. After that, is when the issues/questions of authenticity begins. Look closely at the high quality, documented,original cars that exist to this day. Buyer beware. I don't want to seem mean ,but there is no Santa Claus and people lie....... and we have seen pictures of Santa  ;)
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: 70cj428 on June 06, 2012, 12:42:11 pm
x2 , A good friend was the parts manager at a large Lincoln Mercury dealer at the height of the muscle car era, and was a die hard ford guy. He told me that he's never seen any factory screw ups that affected anything safety or emission related, like distributors or carburators. He did say that cougars would be delivered fairly often with mustang horn pads or door panel emblems, he'd usually take the horn pads home, I have 2 NOS pads from him in my pile of parts. His best score was a 4.30 tracLoc N case center section that was delivered in a 351 2V cougar convertible, It was discovered when they were dealer prepping the car and thought it would't shift into third, the tech had already pulled the trans pan and valve body apart... that rear is currently in a friends Fairlane..
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on June 06, 2012, 06:06:53 pm
Thank you Tim for your reply!!
It seems more and more the people who know are discounted.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: timsa49erfan on June 07, 2012, 01:54:15 pm
First off, let me say that I am in no way defending that ebay scam jerk, the blue 302 or sunshine 302 with this ebay ripoffs, I am merely expressing MY opinion.   I feel this site should and generally does let people express their opinion without others putting on their self proclaimed "know it all" hats and trying to brand people as "doubters or revisionists"  for merely questioning the possibility of a prduction line variance.  So if all you have to say is negative stuff about my post, keep it to yourself as I do about your posts....Thank you......

So anyway,  If all cars were made exactly the same due to mass production??    Then HOW DO WE EXPLAIN A FACTORY INSTALLED AND DOCUMNETED BOSS 302 ENGINE IN A 69 SHELBY GT350??  How do you explain standard shock tower cars coming out of the factory with one standard shock tower and one reinforced shock tower?  How do you explain my old 65 mustang with paint code F-Guardsmen Blue that was a 64 1/2 only paint code, yet it was on a 65 mustang.   There are plenty of other production line variances out there to disprove the point of EXACT mass production.  Look at the production line differences for boss cars between the NJ cars and Dearborn cars.   The documeted variances go on and on......
How do you think they produced these cars in MASS??  They didnt do it by stopping the line when they ran out of an (as you called it) ACCURATE part.  Do you think Ford would allow the line to stop and have all the employees getting paid for standing around???  When that line stopped the line boss had to explain to upper management why!!    Heck no, they didnt stop the prduction line!!  They used a "suitable substitute part" to keep the line moving?? Ford couldnt afford to stop production just because a part wasnt available, not when they had another part that fulfilled the same FIT,FORM, FUNCTION. So they would substitute parts whenever needed.  Look at all of the Marti reports, 90% of the cars were made behind schedule, Ford was pushing these cars out teh door as fast as possible.  And unfortunatly back in those days, quality was not always Job #1 either.  But thats another story.

As far as distributors, you insist that ALL boss 302 distributors had the hole by the clamp for a good reason, however, you failed to mention what that reason is.  AND, do you have any DOCUMENTATION to support your claim, otherwise its your opinion.  I personally want to see first hand documented facts from first hand/ first generation experts. not just the opinoins of others.   If you folks are correct in your claims then you should be able to produce some Ford documentation to support your claims, otherwise we are back to it just being your opinions.

DOES ANYONE have solid proof that all boss 302 distributors had the lead wire hole close to the clamp?   If you have factual evidence that would be awesome, otherwise its just your opinion and not fact.  Does anyone have engineering drawings, some original Ford literature, a sales brocure that promotes this unique distributor with a unique hole placement?    looking for first hand evidence from Ford, manufacture evidence, not second hand opinions from hobbyists, rebuilders, hot rod magazine etc.  Does anyone have first hand proof or documentation to prove or disprove the otheris incorrect???   
I dont mean this to insult, discredit or doubt anyones knowldege but I personally dont recognize any particular individual as a certified boss 302 distributor expert.  I dont feel merely working in a dealership, auto parts store, rebuilder, or car salesman is an expert.  I have freinds that worked at dealerships since the mid 60's and frankly I know alot more about the boss cars than they do because of being a owner/hobbyist that focused on this particular car.   
There were MANY mechanics working in a dealearships, yet there were so few boss cars produced, and even brought into the dealership for maintenance back in the day as they were so simple to work on that most people (especially hot rodders) did their own work instead of paying the high dealership labor rates.  So with so many mechanics and so  very very few cars coming in the shop, how many times does a ford dealer tech actually get to be the one to work on the car.  And even if the mechanic worked on it, was he working on the distributor and if so, did he even notice the very minor difference between the hole location.

There are hundreds of distributor rebuilders in this country, I dont recognize them all as Boss 302 experts either.  But if I was gonna have one rebuilt, Tim would be on my short list of people that I would send it to based on the statements from satisfied customers on this site.  Anyway, most rebuilders are very competant and good at rebuillding distributors, but that doesnt qualify them as an "authority" on what is original or not original.  A person can be a watch/clock repairman, but not the authority on whether or not the hands were painted brass or gold color.  To know that you would have to go back a step further and talk to the first generation people who manufactured the clock/watch, NOT the people who repaired it.
Dont get me wrong, I am NOT saying that one distributor is right or wrong, I am merely saying that THERE WERE MANY cases where not all cars were made exact and that we shouldnt be so close minded to rule out the possibility that a distributor with the correct part number that has NOT been altered and has all of the correct components is not correct just because of the hole location.  If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

Also, I helped judge the boss cars at the 2007 MCA show in Concord CA and of the 8 cars there, 2 had the hole away from the clamp.  I have also seen a few other original cars that had the same distributor with the hole away from the clamp.  Are they original/correct.  I dont know, I did not work on the line and install the part on the original car.  All I am saying is that I believe in keeping an open mind and NEVER say NEVER.  If a part has all of the correct components and the part number has not been altered, just because a hole is drilled in a slightly different location, who are we or anyone other than the person who installed the part to say its a fake or not original?   Regardless of our so called/self proclaimed expertise .  I totally support someone expressing their opinion, BUT it is merely that, it's THEIR opinion, and should remain that.

If a person comes along and can prove that he was one of the boss 302 engine builders or worked the line and has first hand knowledge of what is correct or not, I am not convinced that all boss 302 distributors must have the hole by the clamp to be correct.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: bosscougars on June 07, 2012, 02:35:10 pm
You are right about mistakes being made BUT. Ford could NOT have installed something that they did not have. All C9ZF-12127-E distributors were made the same, by the same company.Just as all the carburetors for the Boss 302 were made by Holley and they are all the same with the exception of the date code.The dual point, vacuum advance distributors made for 1970 428 Cobra Jets are made the same way with the wire the same place for the same reason. If you compare them to a non dual point one you can figure it out yourself. And by the way, there was no such thing as a suitable substitute parts. Like I said, mistakes were made, but not on purpose.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: daveb9 on June 07, 2012, 04:12:20 pm
I was digging through some other parts I would like to sell this past weekend and I found a distributor from a 71 429 Thunderjet that was in a T-bird. It is a single point, Autolite, C8 part number with the exit hole near the advance like the so-called correct one for the Boss 302. I just thought this was interesting. Not necessarily just for the dual points. I noted on my Ebay auction that the one I was selling may or may not be correct for a Boss 302 as I want to be honest with anything I sell. But to hold it in your hand with another exactly like it that has the hole in the correct spot you could not tell any difference in the part numbers. I am not an expert on this stuff but I am a Machinist by trade and have done a lot metal repairing and refinishing and I could not tell any difference in the stamping or casting of either one.

Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: CCBossMan on June 07, 2012, 05:05:16 pm
While I usually side with the thought that "Never say Never", or "not all cars were 100% like people say they were", I can't wrap my hands around the theory on the distributor.  Just as you say without you seeing hard facts, then it's just an opinion.  Well do you have any hard facts that there were any made where the hole wasn't close to the advance?  If not, then your opinion carries no more weight then those you cast doubt on.....except WE KNOW that the hole near the advance is correct, at least.

Continuing on with one of the other posts about design/manufacturing.  Ford must have designed the dual point distributor hole where they did for a reason.  What that reason was, I don't personally know.  But for them to go to the trouble and expense to do it, it must have been for a reason.  Otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the expense to do it if for no other reason except to signify a difference between a single-point one.  If that was the case, they would have used something virtually free like paint markings like they did on things such as: springs, drive shafts, rear ends, etc.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on June 07, 2012, 05:53:46 pm
Sorry once again your theory is flawed.
The engine was assembled well before it hit the line. The date codes prove that. So if the distributor wasn't right It didn't stop the line! It was not put in the engine.

And if you look at the build dates of BOSS 302's they were built in groups, not consecutively like other Mustangs.

Re: The BOSS 302 Shelby, we all know 69 and 70 Shelbys were built at AO Smith, not on the line.
And I dont think I know it all, but did correct you when you disputed that the hood moulding bracket was riveted to the hood.

We all have our own opinion.
And I shall Not keep my mouth shut!
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on June 07, 2012, 06:12:32 pm
Your input is greatly valued.
Did you ever assemble a BOSS 302?
My point being these cars were special, and dont fit the norm, of what happened on the line.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on June 07, 2012, 08:28:03 pm
Thanks for your relpy.
We are not talking axles here, its been well documented many cars came with differernt axle's
This post is about engines, and there assembley
specifically distuributors.

Clearly engine's were Not assembled on the line.

And I highly doubt a BOSS 302 left the factory with the wrong set of springs
Again these cars were special and built in groups from what I have gathered from the Production spreadsheet.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: bosscougars on June 07, 2012, 09:29:00 pm
Like I said, mistakes were made but you could not have installed something that was not produced,period. All Boss 302 distributors looked like this with the only variance being the date.


Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: McKeever on June 08, 2012, 07:28:47 pm
What plant did you work in?
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: blue2222 on June 11, 2012, 03:05:51 pm

  Been following this topic with interest.  I purchased a crusty semi complete boss 302 engine because it had the distributor and other parts I wanted. Sure enough the dist looks right with the wire hole close to clamp and correct numbers.
 My point is that these questionable distributors don't seem to ever have any history of being in a motor or car for a long period of time. Does anyone know of one of these distributors being in a origonal car for the last 30-40 years?
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: 70cj428 on June 11, 2012, 04:42:45 pm
Just a little more fuel for the fire, I checked all the B2 distributers that both I and a friend of mine have stashed away (9 total )  and all of them had the hole close to the advance... Most were from cars/engines we parted out in the 80's , long before anyone cared about these little details. 

 Now for my opinion...  Ford moved the wire for a reason on the dual point distributors  ( I'm guessing that ford moved the wire in the body to keep the wire from rubbing on the point set ) , so I can't imagine ford engineering having their subcontractor just use any small block housing haphazardly, especially on a part that had emission compliance and reliability requirements. Having a mechanical engineering background and experience in manufacturing, I'm certain that nothing got substituted without engineering signing off on it or it being on a list of acceptible substitutes  Playing the devils avocate, If all the "wrong" distributors had one or 2  date codes, it would lend alot of credence to the substitution theory. Likewise if someone had one still installed in it's original home with all the attending dirt, crust, and grease, it would also help alot.... Unfortunately all the the "wrong" distributors seem to be fresh rebuilds, and seem to have appeared when the price or B2 distributors skyrocketed, that, coupled with the fact that the "wrong" housings are plentiful, makes the "both are right" argument a real hard sell....
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: CaBossFan on June 11, 2012, 10:06:49 pm
The 1970 Ford Shop Manual has a photo of the Boss 302 distributor (C9ZF-E) on page 22-02-05, which clearly shows the primary wire close to the vacuum diaphragm.  The shop manual states on page 22-02-02 that "Other than the dual points and concentrically-mounted breaker plate, these distributors are similar to the standard dual diaphragm unit."  On page 22-02-06, a photo of the   V-8 engine single diaphragm distributor (D0AF-Y) shows the primary wire close to the vacuum diaphragm.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: timsa49erfan on June 13, 2012, 01:31:34 pm thats what I'm talking about!!  We are finally getting some input taken from actual factory documentation/technical manuals, not merely opinions.   I'll have to check that out.  But it sounds like from what you said, " On page 22-02-06, a photo of the   V-8 engine single diaphragm distributor (D0AF-Y) shows the primary wire close to the vacuum diaphragm"  So both types of distributors have the wire hole close to  the diaphram???? or was that a typo??   I'm thinking type....

But, yeah, this is going in the right direction now, finally some Ford documentain to hopefully get a difinitive answer to this question

Folks, please dont take my original post wrong, but over the years I've heard different people making claims about the need to have the wire closer to the clamp/diaphram for the distributor to be correct.  However, NOBODY has ever proved it with information from factory documentation or some other verifiable source to clearly prove there is only one correct housing.   So here we are still with nothing more than opinions and know what they say, they are like @$$#0!=s and elbows, everyone has a couple

So yeah I'd would like to see factual documentation to support these claims, otherwise, they are merely opinions and I think that if we are talking about a part that is selling for around $2000 there should be DEFINITIVE proof that there is ONLY ONE CORRECT boss 302 distributor out there.

This site has far more technical info for boss 302's than any site out there and I'm sure eventually a clear cut answer will surface to put this issue to rest
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: CaBossFan on June 13, 2012, 02:34:11 pm
timsa49erfan - According to the photos in the 1970 Ford Shop Manual, the primary wire is close to the vacuum diaphragm on both the single and dual point distributors.  Only two distributors are listed for the 302 engine in 1970, D00F-A and C9ZF-E.  I tried to find out what part number is casted on the distributor shaft on the D00F-A distributor, but I couldn't find a source.  I doubt if the part number on the D00F-A distributor shaft is C80F-12131-A or else it would be a lot easier for someone to make copies of Boss 302 distributors. 
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: Bossssssss on June 13, 2012, 06:23:54 pm
It's pretty obious to me (at least) that the distributors with the hole being far away is wrong. How do I know? Because, if it were correct, the 'Masterpiece' that Tim had in his hands would not have had its hole filled by 'JB Weld' (or whatever it was that the scammer used) and painted the distributor silver. Not to mention I have been into these cars since 1983 and never seen one otherwise - although in those early years I never specifically looked at the wire location.

I am quite sure the scammer(s) are reading this thread (and all the other threads regarding B2 distributors).

What they do is adapt and change (like a bad flu tries to do when treated by antibiotics). At first, they fooled everyone by a simple B2 imposter. Then after being 'found out' by reading these threads, they stepped up thier game by filling the hole. Now that jig is up thus further limiting their audience to those that do not know they adapated. What next? Maybe they will fill the hole by welding an aluminum plug in there and by grinding and buffing the welds smooth and then sandblasting it to look naturally worn again. I would think they must be doing that same process on the 'stamping of the numbers' game.
Who knows, but I am sure they will adapt. You certainly wont see any of them 'man up' on this forum and admit what they are doing. I am 100% sure that if the distributors they were selling were in fact 'real', they would have been the first ones to come on this forum and prove so. I havent heard a peep from any of them - and it appears we know who two of them are. Anyone? Anyone? Didnt think so.

They clearly know that most people who frequent this site are in the know about thier games and now need to step it up. So what method next? We will have to keep our eyes open to find out. Maybe they will move on to faking some other high cost rare part. I would think that the market for selling fake B2 distributors is waning.

My .02 and I am wearing my flak jacket so fire away.

Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: bossneeds on June 13, 2012, 07:29:10 pm
There is no need for the flak jacket. The scammers are the ones that need them. They are like drug dealers, scum and there should be a bounty on them. $50 too much? OK, $25 is better. No regard except for their profit at someones expense. They don't deserve any kind words from anyone, period.
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: timsa49erfan on June 18, 2012, 12:33:24 pm
CaBossfan, I got busy working on my boss getting it ready for the MCA show in Concord this week end and didnt get a chance to research your input, but looking forward to it.  My opinion is that the hole should be close as everyone else says, but again, opinions dont mean a thing, looking for verifiable facts on this subject. 
Title: Re: 70 B2 dizzy on e-bay
Post by: CaBossFan on June 20, 2012, 12:53:12 pm
timsa49erfan - I took photos of the 1970 Ford Shop Manual which show the dual point distributor: