Author Topic: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing  (Read 28402 times)

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Offline Danoh1

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Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« on: March 15, 2010, 02:58:43 pm »
I have a theory, shared by a few others, that in 69 the AMC teams were running IR intakes with Holley Sand Cast carbs.

The theory is put forward by:
Why did they have that giant hood scoop?
Why are there no pictures of the engines installed?
Did you know that the factory AMC drag team was just a few shop stalls down from the Ford team?


I've never seen a picture to validate the theory.  But the evidence continues to mount.  Take a look at these pics from the T/A website recently posted:

Again, hiding the carbs.


That guys arm is exactly in the way.  Again.


nothing to hide Mustang engine:


'68 didn't have the big hood scoop.



The best one yet.  Look how high up the air box is.  What could be under that thing?


The AMC guys don't seem to care about the T/A history of their breed.  I've talked to several old school drag racer types and a couple guys who claim to know all.  They have no idea what I'm talking about.

Anyone know who the engine guys were for the Javelin team in '69?

« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 03:26:31 pm by Danoh1 »
1970 M code Boss T/A (ala Dano)  link to racecar
HHP

Offline ASedan

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 03:19:14 pm »
One of our foremost authorities on the topic is an AMC/Chevy guy we both know.  He swears he saw a T/A video where you can actually see the dual carbs.  I heard the same story from him, but flipped around from what you state - that is that the Ford drag team had their shop right down the road from the AMC T/A team and the Ford guys saw no harm in selling some stuff to the goofy road racers.
Somebody said that SCCA got on them about the hood and they quickly made the scoop/hood available to parts counters.

Offline Danoh1

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 03:28:25 pm »
Yes, Toolboy.  That is the exact story I was trying to relate.  Thank you for clarifying.  I do recall it was the AMC T/A team was down the alley from the Ford Drag team.

I just sent a message off trying to connect with John Martin.  Perhaps Bossboy knows how to contact him?

I also edit the links above so you can see the pictures.
1970 M code Boss T/A (ala Dano)  link to racecar
HHP

Offline Gus-SK-Boss

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 05:04:45 pm »
Danoh,

In 1969, Ronnie Kaplan decided to build his own motors rather than have Traco build the motors.

Gus


Offline Fatboy

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 06:01:06 pm »
Guys, Brooke has some familiarity with the '69 AMC Kaplan Javelins, but finding that info is very difficult (or lost) because Penske discarded/junked/trashed or crushed nearly everything from Kaplan he inherited. I'll ask Brooke about the carbs & induction, though. If it was Dominators, no wonder they kept them well hidden. Those were at that time, Ford exclusive carburators, I believe & if someone 'down the alley' at the Ford shop was backdooring them, alot of people would have been unemployed.
  Asking an old engineer at Holley why on earth the Dominators were called 4500s when it seemed to have nothing to do with the carb or it's flow, he laugh & said that's what it ended up costing Ford apiece for Holley's total development & production cost. That's $4500 each! Win at all cost racing. Fatboy

Offline 70BossTA

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 06:16:25 pm »
Gus is correct, I do remember Kaplan did his own engines after 68,  I have some B&W proofs from 68-69 AMC and I will see if I can see anything.  Sure does make alot of sense for that hood.  I worked with a bunch of guys that did the "AMC in house" A/P AMX for Ike, out of Plymouth Road, but the T/A effort was all Kaplan.

Brooke would be the guy to ask, & he got some great power out of his Javelin....OK, get the info Fatboy!

Ed 
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#16 - Peter Gregg 1971-1 BM T/A team Mustang
0F02G157794 Second owner - (Grabber Orange)

Offline Shelbnut

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 09:47:23 pm »
I think Kaplan was using a Tunnel Ram intake with Dominators.

Offline TACoupe

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 11:08:10 pm »
Info on engine specs can be found here: http://www.javelinamx.com/javhome/race/race.htm  lots more info here:  http://www.amx-perience.com/

                       Roy

Offline Danoh1

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2010, 10:35:23 am »
I've heard tunnel ram intakes as well.  I should not have implied IR, like the Ford intakes.  But I think their tunnel ram might have been IR as well.  Since the first Dominators were IR.

Those 2 websites don't address the engine specs.  And they don't show pics of the engine.  I've rooted around there previously.  But not much today.

if there are pics of the engine with dominators sitting on them, please post a link.
1970 M code Boss T/A (ala Dano)  link to racecar
HHP

Offline Fatboy

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2010, 03:25:25 pm »
Ed, I'll call Brooke tonight... he might know the whole scoop, so to speak. Ha, Ha. Fatboy

Offline TACoupe

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2010, 03:50:35 pm »
I've heard tunnel ram intakes as well.  I should not have implied IR, like the Ford intakes.  But I think their tunnel ram might have been IR as well.  Since the first Dominators were IR.

Those 2 websites don't address the engine specs.  And they don't show pics of the engine.  I've rooted around there previously.  But not much today.

if there are pics of the engine with dominators sitting on them, please post a link.

Danoh, as soon as you open the first link it's right in front of you. It says 69 TransAm Javelin specs, but here's the link:  http://www.javelinamx.com/javhome/race/ta-jav01.txt


                                Roy

Offline 1109RWHP

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 05:00:48 pm »
What engine were the Ford drag guys running IR Dominators on? Were they just using a regular tunnel ram?

Offline Danoh1

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 05:18:41 pm »
I see those specs and they appear to come out of a Car Life magazine.  The intake part number is a cross ram.  Not inline.   If my theory is correct, they would not advertise they were running the "stolen" Holley's.  I still think they were running them on an edelbrock tunnel ram manifold.  I just found John Martin's phone number.  He was a driver and crew chief in '69.  Gonna call tonight.

Yes, There were special intakes made to run special holley IR carbs on Boss 302 motors in '69.  John Slack and Gus have one.  I've had 2.  There are 2 cars currently running them.  I think.  Stories from the day say they were either on or off.  Nothing in the middle.  idled at like 3K.  Nothing quite like the bling factor though.  Open that hood and see two of those monsters sitting sideways. 
1970 M code Boss T/A (ala Dano)  link to racecar
HHP

Offline TA28

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 05:22:11 pm »
danho what was the quote???????????? OH

TOWERS OF POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Offline TACoupe

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Re: Back on topic. 1969 Trans Am racing
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2010, 07:40:59 pm »

Yes, There were special intakes made to run special holley IR carbs on Boss 302 motors in '69.  John Slack and Gus have one.  I've had 2.  There are 2 cars currently running them.  I think.  Stories from the day say they were either on or off.  Nothing in the middle.  idled at like 3K.  Nothing quite like the bling factor though.  Open that hood and see two of those monsters sitting sideways. 

Danoh, I've got a dual dom. intake also along with the 2x4 regular Holley TA intake and 2 offset dist. I also have a Shelby 2x4 and 3 or 4  2x4 302W intakes along with a few other odds and ends intakes. I used to own a Roush and HM 1x4 which I traded to Rich Rodeck for some of the work he did on my car. I also used to own a dual Inline setup that came with adapters to use Webers.

                                 Roy