Author Topic: experimental Cleveland?  (Read 1525 times)

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Offline jd5020

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experimental Cleveland?
« on: April 26, 2012, 06:23:19 pm »
It is not a boss 302 but I figured you guys would know. Has anyone seen a 351 Cleveland block with the fuel pump moved to the right hand side with no casting numbers other than the word “ experimental”?  The owner thinks it may have some NASCAR origins. It is currently being installed in a 1970 mach1 road race car.. Any thoughts??

Offline crossboss

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 12:52:25 pm »
If anyone would know its Randy  aka GT350HR.

Offline MrGuts

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 09:18:31 pm »
It is not a boss 302 but I figured you guys would know. Has anyone seen a 351 Cleveland block with the fuel pump moved to the right hand side with no casting numbers other than the word “ experimental”?  The owner thinks it may have some NASCAR origins. It is currently being installed in a 1970 mach1 road race car.. Any thoughts??

Rick,

Any pics of the Mach 1 race car?

 ;D

Offline Danoh1

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 03:50:36 am »
I suspect it came out of a Pantera endurance program.  I had an intake for this, I think.  Gus has it now.  It was a Cleveland dominator flanged intake with Webber style water necks.
1970 M code Boss T/A (ala Dano)  link to racecar
HHP

Offline jd5020

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 02:50:02 pm »
interesting.. i will pass that info along thanks. the car is owned by david carpenter and races here in the  midwest. i see it at road america. neat car. here is a pic.
rick

Offline TA28

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 03:08:54 pm »
i know most of the 351c used in nascar were aussie blocks.late 70's early 80's 351c weren't being cast and before ford motorsports, and from what i read castings weren't to good on the usa 351c castings. i do know they made a 302 based on the 351c assuie block . any pt# on the side of the block.

Offline jd5020

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 03:17:37 pm »
i have not seen the block in person but when i asked the owner about casting numbers or date codes his reply was that it seems to only have "experimental" cast or i suppose possibly stamped in it. that did not sound correct to me but like i said i have not seen it with my own eyes...
rick

Offline TA28

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 03:42:55 pm »
rick ;randy or gus should know what this block is. you could also try jay cushman he's in maine hard to get sometimes. if you need his # let me know.jay should know to big into nascar /gurney eagle/t/a boss's. webb site is cushman compitition.

Offline 70BossTA

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2012, 06:27:16 pm »
To All,
         David figured it out, it was a older truck 351-C block, thick cylinder walls and a machinist changed the fuel pump to meet stock car rules back then.  I think he found a very good one and I hope it serves him well.  Beautiful Grabber Blue Mach I and he does keep the Ford running well in vintage racing. 

Ed
Current Boss:  0F02G194983
Previously owned: 
SFM5S271  (65 B/P Shelby)
Bud Moore #16 - Peter Gregg 1971 team - SBY)
0F02G157794 (second owner - Grabber Orange)

Offline nrp_mn

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 08:04:10 am »
I know this block and customer very well. Minnesota oval track racer Jeff Martin routinely moved the fuel pump to the right side of the block. This allowed clearance for the steering column to get down to the rack and pinion. Jeff built a fixture and used his Bridgeport to perform this mod. He has always been a diehard Ford guy and had to overcome all the obstacles that the Cleveland motor presented when most race cars (i.e. Lefthander, Howe, Port City, etc, etc,)
were built for GM power. This particular block came from Jeff,s shop and belonged to Steve Anderson who later sold it to Dave Carpenter. The canted valve Ford motor made plenty of power and Jeff Martin won many championships at Elko Speedway in Minnesota.

Offline Mpcoluv

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 06:27:50 pm »
What is a "Truck" 351c block?
The aussie XE blocks had thicker bores, but I know of no (non -Ranchero) trucks that got a 351C. The 351M was used a lot however.

Offline nzboss

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 06:45:51 pm »
Interesting....
I was not aware of a 'thicker wall truck block' either.
Indeed the later Aussie blocks are thicker as is the XE block.
But I have also learnt (with Ford) that nothing is absolute!
Which block is this?

Offline 79GTS

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 09:12:18 pm »
Gents,

I had an XE block and sold it because the cylinders were too thin.  There were also an early and a later XE Block.  Early came from within the US and later I'm told AUSSIE.   One thing for sure is the XE was a higher nickel content so machine shops charge more to bore them.   

Ron

Offline gt350hr

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Re: experimental Cleveland?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 11:26:19 am »
   Thanks for the insight on Jeff Martin. I was about to post that the machining was not consistant with that done at Ford E&F. Looks like he may have used a chevy fuel pump and rod by the pipe plug under the pump plate. Ford would have no reason to move the pump location. NASCAR (at the cup level) wouldn't allow it either. I am actually surprised Jeff got away with it as it's a safety problem. Hit the outside wall and break off the fuel pump just like the chevies did. Jeff's mod also allowed him to use a FAR less rare normal HV fuel pump. A Carter "race pump" for a 351C is a very rare part these days. Even 'back in the day" they were over $300 from Bud Moore Eng who contracted Carter to make them.
         
         Not all "SK" or "XE" blocks are the same. Remember these were "experimental" blocks and many were not good experiments. I have notes on 15 different variations Ford made changes to. The "aussie blocks" with the GF casting plant code are the safest for a person to buy/use. These were cast in Auz land with the best information available as far as durability and function. If anyone has an earlier SK/XE block I'll be happy to help them determine if it's a safe one to use. PM me if needed.
          Randy
'66 GT350H (6S477)1of 18 white w/blue side stripes - drag raced mostly w / Boss 302 power for 35+ years
68.5 Cobra Jet fb  white w/blue c stripe 4spd
sorry never owned a Boss car just engines
cover Car Craft July '77 with my Boss powered GT350
cover/article Mustang Illustrated Fall 1987 w/all aluminum SK 351 Cleveland powered Mustang II
cover /article Modified Mustangs Feb 2011