Author Topic: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum  (Read 3259 times)

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Offline bosstwins

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Offline crossboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 09:58:46 am »
Yep. This topic is also being discussed on the 428CJ site.
Current lifelong project:
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Offline JohnSlack

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 10:35:59 am »
Stunning loss to the Shelby hobby.
John
1st universal rule of value,
"Parts are parts, cash is only money and doesn't have the same value. You get that right?"

 2nd universal rule of value, "an object is only worth the higher of two values placed upon it by either the current entity in possession of the item, or the value placed on it by an entity wanting to take over possession of the item."

Offline crossboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 11:02:42 am »
John,
Whats ironic about this mess, the owner of the SAAC site is a computer tech wiz, who did not have any 'back up' or current updates. Sad indeed to the hobby, and to the members of SAAC.
Current lifelong project:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 6 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, intake mounted with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style…Whew!

Offline tcpippro

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 11:10:10 am »
WOW!  All that knowledge and information lost.  Devastating...

Makes one wonder about the redundancy and recovery abilities of the BOSS302 site and if it could suffer a similar fate.

Offline Bossgold

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 11:51:30 am »
You can still recover data from the disks its just a lot of work and may not be cheap. I have always wondered what the 'Value' of this site's data really is....and with amazon S3 a backup is a no-brainer. I have always wanted to see a better search engine with key word capability for the Boss 302 Registry. My point, if they really wanted to rebuild the site with the historic data it can be done if the owner feels its valuable time spent and wants to spend the money.

Offline bossneeds

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 12:17:13 pm »
So...did everything get lost? All of the info for the Registry's, photos, cars history's, ect ? And none of that is recoverable? I'm not a computer guy so can someone give me (us) a bit more insight as to what really happened and is lost forever?
1967 Tiger MK1-A
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BOSS 302's are like a fabulous WI cheddar. Both get better with age and you buy them for your enjoyment, not as an investment.

Offline crossboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 12:32:30 pm »
You can still recover data from the disks its just a lot of work and may not be cheap. I have always wondered what the 'Value' of this site's data really is....and with amazon S3 a backup is a no-brainer. I have always wanted to see a better search engine with key word capability for the Boss 302 Registry. My point, if they really wanted to rebuild the site with the historic data it can be done if the owner feels its valuable time spent and wants to spend the money.


Joe,
As I heard, all data is gone forever. This is my personal experience with SAAC as I posted on the 428CJ site:
"The 428 CJ site is always rock solid. SAAC is (and was) always behind the times for web protection and info gathering. Years ago, when I registered my GT-500, it took them forever to acknowledge my info and some got kicked back with 'errors'. This was a big hassle, no doubt. Also, the Boss 302 site has its ups and downs…obviously, not like SAAC. Lastly, its ironic that the SAAC site was owned by a computer wiz, yet took no effort to protect valuable info, and a reliable 'back up' system."
Current lifelong project:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 6 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, intake mounted with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style…Whew!

Offline JohnSlack

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 12:49:17 pm »
So the question goes out to Randy and Jeff, Do we as members of the board need to make a donation to improve the back up of this site?
John
1st universal rule of value,
"Parts are parts, cash is only money and doesn't have the same value. You get that right?"

 2nd universal rule of value, "an object is only worth the higher of two values placed upon it by either the current entity in possession of the item, or the value placed on it by an entity wanting to take over possession of the item."

Offline Hazedmagnums

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 01:05:47 pm »
So the question goes out to Randy and Jeff, Do we as members of the board need to make a donation to improve the back up of this site?
John

Great question! I’m in to help via donation. As a career pilot, I can tell you it’s far more beneficial to learn from other’s mistakes rather than having personal experience...

Offline Bossgold

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 01:18:02 pm »
Having a size of the data files on the Registry site and the type of format will dictate its cost. You have to know how the data is stored, (file server, Database, etc.) and the size (probably in the GB range...maybe TB) and you can run a back up.  Disk space is cheap. Now days, not to have a backup is one of two things - you either don't care or you are careless!  I went to Best Buy and bought a 1 Terabyte drive with a 3.0 USB for couple of 100 bucks and have plenty of backup on my PC's. I also backed it up to Dropbox.  So again, I struggle with the fact that the data cannot be recovered when even if you delete data on your PC and re-format its still recoverable. THat's why if you donate your PC to anyone, always remove your Hard drive, regardless, or your giving your personal info to everyone.

Offline 0F02G202911

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 02:29:25 pm »
+1 to donate if needed for upgrades. Randy - please let us know.
Gary
70 B302
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Offline 167961

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 02:49:22 pm »
+1 to donate if needed for upgrades. Randy - please let us know.
Count me in too. I work in the field of digitisation of government records. Our motto is "records digitisation is not about the past - it's about the future of our past". The same applies to the matter discussed in this thread - protecting the information is worth any amount of money, cos once the information is gone, it's gone.
Martin
June 1970 VIN 0T02G167961, all numbers matching, not yet perfect but therein lies the challenge :-)

Offline JohnSlack

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 03:36:53 pm »
There are many things on this board that replaceable, however there are many things that were written by folks that are gone that have helped many people.
John
1st universal rule of value,
"Parts are parts, cash is only money and doesn't have the same value. You get that right?"

 2nd universal rule of value, "an object is only worth the higher of two values placed upon it by either the current entity in possession of the item, or the value placed on it by an entity wanting to take over possession of the item."

Offline 69mach351w

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 04:33:22 pm »
Some over there think its no big deal. As one admin says " Just a minor hiccup", boy did that raise some hair on the back of mosts necks!!

I'm on there pretty regular and over the past several weeks up to the crash, a lot of members were concerned that there were no real concern about who owned the forum, switched owners?!, etc...  Members were talking about this quite frequently up to the crash.  Then it happened!!!

Everything GONE!! 

Offline BossRaver

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 04:47:34 pm »
How do we protect this site and what does it cost? Losing all this data would be just tragic. How much do I owe?    Ed Raver

Offline Bossgold

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 06:46:06 pm »
The first question is who owns the Data? I did a search on www.Boss302.com and this is what it showed:

Registrant Name: Bob Cloutier, Registrant Organization: ProTech Computer Systems, Inc.
Registrant Street: 7100 North Broadway Blg 3C, Registrant City: Denver
Registrant State/Province: CO, Registrant Postal Code: 80221-2925
Registrant Phone: +1.3034300433


 The above information only shows who owns the URL and other information that I did not choose to post. I not sure who Bob Cloutier is but it looks like he is involved with the Site and its support. Some  one is paying for the services and the server. This is their data and not really ours so that would be where I would start cause then it becomes interesting in placing a 'value' on this data. After all there is some really valuable information posted here give by several members. Here is an example, All those great pictures on photo bucket that were lost because their was no upload to this site.  Those photos should have been stored along with the text. So when Photo bucket changed their legal posting policy all the great photos attached to great stories were gone. To bad because those photos along with the stories were amazing. Storage is cheap and it could have been real simple to require an upload of the picture.  What happened to the SAAC site was a result of the owner using the the members expertise to create a dataset of value. Every time, people like John, Scott, Randy, Ed, Jeff and a host of others give their inputs its knowledge with a value attached.....its history documented about the Boss cars! Priceless! Heck, even Amazon goes down so without a regular backup you will have problems.  So I guess is this site a collective community or owned by a single group/person that gives us the right to access?

Offline 1320it

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 08:16:47 pm »
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.saacforum.com/
2015 Ford Mustang GT Coupe

Offline JohnSlack

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 09:17:02 pm »
I think we need to wait for Randy and Jeff to weigh in on this subject. Not maverick anything.
John
1st universal rule of value,
"Parts are parts, cash is only money and doesn't have the same value. You get that right?"

 2nd universal rule of value, "an object is only worth the higher of two values placed upon it by either the current entity in possession of the item, or the value placed on it by an entity wanting to take over possession of the item."

Offline dhunter

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 09:18:55 pm »
I used the information daily while restoring my gt500 , a sad day indeed.
"People in glass houses should not throw stones"

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Offline Jeff

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2018, 09:37:22 pm »
The first question is who owns the Data? I did a search on www.Boss302.com and this is what it showed:

Registrant Name: Bob Cloutier, Registrant Organization: ProTech Computer Systems, Inc.
Registrant Street: 7100 North Broadway Blg 3C, Registrant City: Denver
Registrant State/Province: CO, Registrant Postal Code: 80221-2925
Registrant Phone: +1.3034300433


 The above information only shows who owns the URL and other information that I did not choose to post. I not sure who Bob Cloutier is but it looks like he is involved with the Site and its support. Some  one is paying for the services and the server. This is their data and not really ours so that would be where I would start cause then it becomes interesting in placing a 'value' on this data. After all there is some really valuable information posted here give by several members. Here is an example, All those great pictures on photo bucket that were lost because their was no upload to this site.  Those photos should have been stored along with the text. So when Photo bucket changed their legal posting policy all the great photos attached to great stories were gone. To bad because those photos along with the stories were amazing. Storage is cheap and it could have been real simple to require an upload of the picture.  What happened to the SAAC site was a result of the owner using the the members expertise to create a dataset of value. Every time, people like John, Scott, Randy, Ed, Jeff and a host of others give their inputs its knowledge with a value attached.....its history documented about the Boss cars! Priceless! Heck, even Amazon goes down so without a regular backup you will have problems.  So I guess is this site a collective community or owned by a single group/person that gives us the right to access?


Mr. Cloutier owns the company that owns the server where this forum and our website, www.boss302.com, resides and he handles the registration of our URL. I'm not a lawyer but perhaps that technically means he owns the website and the database of this forum but we, the Registry, manage it with him. He has graciously given us this server space free of charge since we posted our first web pages on October 7, 1998.  Yes, we are coming up on 20 years of BOSS 302 Registry on the internet. FREE. Over the past 19+ years we have had people offer to advertise here and we turned them down. We even had someone try to buy the forum and we turned them down, too.

And yes, the forum database does get backed up regularly (not daily but often) so we should not face what happened at the SAAC forum.

Offline Bossgold

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 10:00:55 pm »
Thanks Jeff, not here to ruffle anyone. One last comment, Since Bob, by Law owns the rights to this data, is there an escrow account that he would agree to that would store a backup tape in case something unforeseen should happen? might be worth asking.

Offline Bossgold

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 10:36:51 pm »
BTW, I own www.fordboss.com ....have not done anything with it yet but was thinking to engage the restoration guys to gather up all the info with a really cool search feature...with photos so all info is in one place. I have collected info for 7 years on anything Boss from restore services, to parts, to paint color mixes.....to geography and location. from console parts to distributor info...

Offline XEngr

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2018, 07:21:37 am »
Some of the forum was saved on the Waybackmachine internet archive

Offline Idylboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2018, 07:32:48 am »
We all appreciate the attention the admins are giving this sad situation.  Thanks guys!
Marc
boss429sd@yahoo.com

Offline gt350hr

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2018, 08:38:57 am »
   The SAAC deal "to me" was a temporary set back. After all a site is simply a source location created for and built upon by members. Yes sadly we have lost some of the contributors (rip) but the information will return because of the dedication of the members. The SAAC site is already a buzz with restoration back to #1 Shelby source status. SAAC is very strong and will be fine.
'66 GT350H (6S477)1of 18 white w/blue side stripes - drag raced mostly w / Boss 302 power for 35+ years
68.5 Cobra Jet fb  white w/blue c stripe 4spd
sorry never owned a Boss car just engines
cover Car Craft July '77 with my Boss powered GT350
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Offline 1109RWHP

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2018, 05:45:19 pm »
I have just about given up on that site. It is slower than frozen molasses.  What a mess.

Offline 69mach351w

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 06:22:12 pm »
Yes you’re exactly right 1109RWHP. And the admins were coming on frequently and saying they were going to straighten out the mess. Now, they’re not responding at all and it is slowest I’ve ever seen any forum.
Something was abound to happen. Two weeks leading up to the crash there were everyone talking about who owned it, why are things going on with the forum. Questions everywhere wondering what was going on then.....BAM!!!! Crash, everything gone!!!!

This should’ve never happened!!!! TMO

Offline 1109RWHP

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2018, 07:06:22 pm »
I started posting pictures but gave up because it was too slow.

Offline gt350hr

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2018, 08:27:38 am »
   Try it now , the speed is back. Just as fast as it is here.
'66 GT350H (6S477)1of 18 white w/blue side stripes - drag raced mostly w / Boss 302 power for 35+ years
68.5 Cobra Jet fb  white w/blue c stripe 4spd
sorry never owned a Boss car just engines
cover Car Craft July '77 with my Boss powered GT350
cover/article Mustang Illustrated Fall 1987 w/all aluminum SK 351 Cleveland powered Mustang II
cover /article Modified Mustangs Feb 2011
cover Mustang Monthly  June 2014

Offline 69mach351w

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2018, 03:14:48 pm »
   Try it now , the speed is back. Just as fast as it is here.
LOL, now try it Randy!!!  SLOOOOOOOW.....

Keeps giving me this message:
Service Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.

Apache Server at www.saacforum.com Port 80

Offline 1109RWHP

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2018, 06:54:36 pm »
Still just as bad.

Offline crossboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2018, 07:01:18 pm »
As of now Feb 3, 2018 its up and running smooth.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 12:11:46 pm by crossboss »
Current lifelong project:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 6 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, intake mounted with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style…Whew!

Offline 1109RWHP

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2018, 09:31:19 pm »
Do you mean February 3rd?

Offline crossboss

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Re: SAAC Forum crash results in total devastation of the forum
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2018, 12:12:17 pm »
Do you mean February 3rd?


Oops, yes, sorry Feb 3, 2018.
Current lifelong project:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 6 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase headed, intake mounted with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style…Whew!