Author Topic: very slow getting on boss site  (Read 891 times)

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Offline AlexM

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2020, 08:44:34 am »
I think it would be great just to hear what it is. Just simple thread, here are the fires were fighting, here's what we need help with, or there is a plan 'I just need a free weekend to work on it', how do we fund it etc.. if we need to sell some cookies and raise some cash let's do it. I just baffles me why we can't have a discussion about the status of the server, what it needs and how to get there.

It seems certainly logical, given the hacks almost a year ago, that changes were made to the system that slowed things down. Maybe new code, anti-virus, whatever.. I'm all for solid security and if that's the case and we need more CPU then lets get more CPU, more RAM, bigger pipe, faster bigger better whatever. The old saying I used to use at the University when dealing with 'capacity' was to double it, double it again and add 50%. What ever it is, let's jump on it and get it taken care of.

As far as we know there's no one working on this. We -have to assume- no body is running with this at this point. There is disconnect between us and the admins (enclave) and we are not invited.

I'm not sure where that leaves us. Actually, I do know exactly where that leaves -us-, I've seen it many times.
--Alex
1969 Mach 1
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G120146
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G119233 W code
1969 BOSS 302 9F02G196425
1969 BOSS 429 9F02Z198888 KK 1982

Offline 167961

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2020, 03:34:21 pm »
I think it would be great just to hear what it is. Just simple thread, here are the fires were fighting, here's what we need help with, or there is a plan 'I just need a free weekend to work on it', how do we fund it etc.. if we need to sell some cookies and raise some cash let's do it. I just baffles me why we can't have a discussion about the status of the server, what it needs and how to get there.

It seems certainly logical, given the hacks almost a year ago, that changes were made to the system that slowed things down. Maybe new code, anti-virus, whatever.. I'm all for solid security and if that's the case and we need more CPU then lets get more CPU, more RAM, bigger pipe, faster bigger better whatever. The old saying I used to use at the University when dealing with 'capacity' was to double it, double it again and add 50%. What ever it is, let's jump on it and get it taken care of.

As far as we know there's no one working on this. We -have to assume- no body is running with this at this point. There is disconnect between us and the admins (enclave) and we are not invited.

I'm not sure where that leaves us. Actually, I do know exactly where that leaves -us-, I've seen it many times.
Great observations and solution statement Alex.

I vote we send in Neo from “The Matrix” to sort it 😜
Martin
June 1970 VIN 0T02G167961, all numbers matching, not yet perfect but therein lies the challenge :-)

Offline gtabert

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2020, 06:04:31 pm »
It is odd, certaintly admin has been following this, we are all in and behind you! What's up?
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Offline OFO2G154573

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2020, 07:51:58 am »
All -

I'm in as well - it took over a minute to create this post.  Not sure, does this site live locally in some ISP or in  the cloud?  If funding is required, let's all make it happen. 

Thanks,


Bob
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Offline AlexM

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2020, 10:29:36 am »
Funny if you post an add with no price you'll get a response from the admin seemingly within minutes.
Talk about the site and its needs for days on end? crickets...

Guys, I want nothing more than this site to be successful and productive. There is a clear path to get where we need and there is no technical reason why we should be stuck where we are. I'm certain now too there is no financial reason either. The problem is nobody owns the issue, or does not have OUR interests in mind, or just doesn't know how, or is too proud to reach out for help, or just doesn't care anymore. I've seen system administration like this before where admins become 'disablers' instead of 'enablers', users suffer, get disappointed and leave. We are at that point.

So given there aren't any admins on this forum able to participate in this discussion I'll have to start external and see where it leads.

I'll keep everyone posted!
--Alex
1969 Mach 1
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G120146
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G119233 W code
1969 BOSS 302 9F02G196425
1969 BOSS 429 9F02Z198888 KK 1982

Offline Jeff

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2020, 10:33:09 am »
Yes, I have been following this as gtabert pointed out. I probably spend more time than most on the forum doing admin things like practically reading every post, approving new members, blocking out the spammers trying to become members, moving threads, reprimanding members that get out of line, etc. so I too suffer from the speed issue. I have a day job and other things going on in life. I'm sorry the forum speed thing hasn't been my highest priority lately. We did a couple of small things in December but they probably only improved the speed by milliseconds.

If anyone here (AlexM) has experience with Windows based servers, ransomware prevention and server speed and would like to help feel free to send me an email or a PM.

Offline 70BossTA

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2020, 01:31:39 pm »
Jeff,
        Thank you for all you do for this Forum!  Appreciate your continued efforts and the time it takes to keep this up and running smoothly.  This is REAL asset to those of us in the Boss community!! 

Ed
Previously owned: 
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Offline AlexM

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2020, 03:43:21 pm »
Jeff thanks for jumping in and thank you for what you do to keep things going. Seriously, I know it's not your day job and I'm sure there is plenty to keep busy with running things day to day. So are you primarily it then for administration?

I'm more than happy to help, I will come right out and say I am not a Windows guru (or fan) my experience over the year is unix systems, routing/switching/wireless, virtual machines and main-frames back in the day. But trouble shooting and system tuning is pretty common across the board at its foundation, I've got several ideas. I don't want to launch into a thousand questions here/now (it's Super Bowl!) :) , I'll reach out tomorrow with a PM and get a feel for the system and what I can help with.

I do though would like to keep a dialogue running on this thread, or maybe start a new one in an appropriate spot? where we can keep folks updated and even solicit more help as things progress. I'm sure this could be more work than just you and me and there has to be others out there we can tap for expertise. Maybe even reaching out to other admins from like sites. See what they are doing.

I apologize if I've come across like a large type a-hole, but I think we have a great opportunity here to get to take advantage of support from the members and get this site back on track. :)
--Alex
1969 Mach 1
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G120146
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G119233 W code
1969 BOSS 302 9F02G196425
1969 BOSS 429 9F02Z198888 KK 1982

Offline Jeff

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2020, 08:41:38 pm »
Ok. I moved this thread.

Here is some starting point reading for anyone that is interested in forum speed:

https://www.webpagetest.org/result/191126_19_e9d7460093a16bb619d13c12556aac59/
https://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.boss302.com/CXRnwXSH
For a 3rd opinion you can run a performance test here: https://gf.dev/website-audit
https://web.dev/time-to-first-byte/

Offline hopey

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2020, 12:28:34 pm »
Jeff

It’s maybe 20 years since I dabbled with Windows servers, so can’t directly help. However I did look at the performance report and they seem to me like they are server response issues.

Maybe worth reaching out to Scott ( SAH62) to compare our server & traffic versus the 428CJ site. I know he recently upgraded the server with disk space, cpu and memory. He also did some web server software updates.

They are running SMF 2.0.17 (2019 release) versus our 2.0.15 (2017 release).

He also updated their data privacy features to comply with new legislation in Europe & California.

Finally he just added some software to manage image sizes. (Says Simple Audio Video Embedder)



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Offline AlexM

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2020, 03:56:44 pm »
I will add on to hopey's comments.  (some of this detail might be obvious to some, but check it out)

I was running the testing tool this morning against our top level forum URL:
http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php
Typical response times then were in 15-20 second range.

Compared results to the 428CJ site's top level forum URL:
https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php
Response times for that site were in the 1 second range.

The 428CJ page I feel is a decent comparison because it's a very similar site, same look and feel, similar code.

The test results for each site were pretty similar except for one major item. Something called Time to First Byte (TTFB). Which from this site was a huge number, around 15.7 seconds of the 17.4 it took to load the page. TTFB is the time we wait after sending the request to the server until we start getting data back, then the browser builds (paints) the page for you to read. So roughly 90% of the time is wait time, waiting for the server to generate the page to send. These pages are generated and built on the server every time someone clicks on them. They are called dynamic web pages and are that way because every time you load one of these pages data changes, like number of posts or topics, dates/times, last person posting etc.. This is opposed to a static page which is the same every time and doesn't change unless someone makes change.

For example this is a static page:
http://www.boss302.com/menu.htm

Everything on this page is static and everything under the links with the Red dots is static. Try them out and see how fast they load every time, even though the forum pages are slow.

So that page I tested this morning went like this:
Clicked on the page and these two thing happen immediately:
1) My computer did a DNS lookup 1/4 second
2) and then sent the initial connection requesting the page to server 1/3 second
Server generates the page request 15.7 seconds... (this is were you stare at the screen)
Server sends all data and browser builds page 1.7 seconds (page pops up)

So to hopey's point, this delay is server load. It may seem obvious in some respect but it is good hard evidence on where we should focus efforts. In other words it's not the internet, DNS, connectivity issues, hosting problems, bottle necks or -your- computer. The server is busy.

Next item I would focus on then is what is keeping the server so busy.  Given this seemed to start around the time of the hacks I would venture to guess maybe some 'anti-virus' type application(s) were added, which can certainly add (legitimate) load to the CPU, excessive logging (I've seen servers get wrapped around the axle spending more time logging what they are doing, than what they are doing), RAM usage, diskspace etc.. Seeing how things were good before the hacks, something done around then probably added too much load to the CPU's and put them over the top. All in all we're probably just building a good case to get a new server. But we should back it up with good evidence. I think we're on the right track.

I also really like hopey's idea of reaching out to the 428CJ site to see if we can get an idea of their build. Server size and specs. Given the code we want to run; OS (Windows), Forum software SMF 2.x, all appropriate security software, number of connections planned to support, photo loading etc.. we can come up with a good idea of size (CPU, RAM, Disk) and go from there.
--Alex
1969 Mach 1
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G120146
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G119233 W code
1969 BOSS 302 9F02G196425
1969 BOSS 429 9F02Z198888 KK 1982

Offline sportyworty

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2020, 05:45:04 pm »
Pretty sure Scott has already reached out because I had this very conversation with him on the phone a few weeks ago when I came back to the forums after 6 mos and brought it up.
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."

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Offline Jeff

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2020, 07:35:18 pm »
Jeff

It’s maybe 20 years since I dabbled with Windows servers, so can’t directly help. However I did look at the performance report and they seem to me like they are server response issues.

Maybe worth reaching out to Scott ( SAH62) to compare our server & traffic versus the 428CJ site. I know he recently upgraded the server with disk space, cpu and memory. He also did some web server software updates.

They are running SMF 2.0.17 (2019 release) versus our 2.0.15 (2017 release).

He also updated their data privacy features to comply with new legislation in Europe & California.

Finally he just added some software to manage image sizes. (Says Simple Audio Video Embedder)

Scott sent me a PM today. 2.0.16 and 2.0.17 were just released at the end of December. Will look into updating.

Offline sah62

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2020, 05:42:43 am »
Pretty sure Scott has already reached out because I had this very conversation with him on the phone a few weeks ago when I came back to the forums after 6 mos and brought it up.

Yes, Jeff and I have been exchanging information. The software that our forums use is a resource hog compared to serving up static web pages. As a result, I made the move from a low-cost shared hosting platform to a dedicated virtual machine several years ago. It made a huge difference in server performance, but it also requires A LOT of hands-on work to stay ahead of everything.
Scott Hollenbeck
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Owner, Muscle Car Research LLC
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Offline AlexM

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Re: very slow getting on boss site
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2020, 10:39:14 am »
Scott, good to hear you and Jeff are lined up and I appreciate any help you can provide. Hopefully we can get things cranked up and snappy again. I've used the 428CJ site over the years as well, mostly just reading around but I like the similar format, nice clean look, no adds etc.. and the top level information is great, lots of good detailed information.
--Alex
1969 Mach 1
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G120146
1970 BOSS 302 0F02G119233 W code
1969 BOSS 302 9F02G196425
1969 BOSS 429 9F02Z198888 KK 1982